Soliciting feedback and suggestions

[tbrtt1]

Got my #2 last week and followed the directions to season it. Put dowels in smoke box and turned to 250. I put a probe in the middle of the box to check temps. As the temp approached 230 or so the smoke became hideous and acrid and billowing grey plumes form the smoke hole. The temp continued to rise and shot up to 320+. Shut her down and let her cool and tried again with an apple chunk. Same result and I am getting the big belch from the unit as it is going through 250-260*. I let it cool a bit and set it for 225 and she seems to run between 190 and 240 at that setting.

So this week I did another test and put some chips in Foil and poked a few holes in it and put this in the smoker box. Set the dial for 225. Getting mostly TBS but as the box temp rises through the 220 or so range the smoke gets thick and slightly acrid. When the element shuts off the temp continues to rise a bit, about 10-20*.

Then I decided to soak some chips and wrap in foil. Soaked them for about 4 hours. I also set the temp a little lower, around 220*. This seemed to work a little better.

So...............with all of that said, I have a couple questions and observations:

First off, my brisket was good but took about 16 hours and my chicken leg quarters took about 6 hours (I did open the box a bit since I didn't probe the chicken). I was hesitant to put the dial past the 220 mark and risk getting the nasty billowing smoke. There is a significant difference in the smell when this happens. Smells horrible.

Could this be an air flow problem (too much), a cheap dry wood problem, or an element/temp control problem?

My probe is dual probe and calibrated to 212 boiling water. I had both probes in and they read the same so I believe the temp readings I am getting. To me the temps don't seem unreasonable.

Shouldn't I be able to run the temps higher without the wood burning that badly and producing that acrid smoke?? My brisket was small and I'd like to think I can get it smoked in a 10-12 hour window. Not that I am overly concerned with time as I cook to IT, but still......

I am considering and AMNPS but I hear it is hit and miss with staying lit. Some don't seem to have a problem and some have problems and even drill more holes for air flow.


Any and all feedback welcomed.

 

[rickne]

The first thing I would try to rule out the wood.  I've had similar things happen but it's not consistent and now that I think about, it's hasn't happened with my current stock of wood.

 

[DivotMaker]

Quite a bit here to tackle.  First, totally disregard any temperature readings you took during seasoning.  It's a total waste of time and effort to "test" temps with an empty smoker.  As the element cycles on and off, it needs something to absorb and hold the heat (meat, water pan).  Without it, there is nothing but hard, reflective surfaces in there. 

Next, Rick is right.  One of the main causes of combustion (what you are getting) is dry wood.  The hickory dowels that come with the smoker are good, as are sources like Fruitawood and Maine Grilling Woods.  Stay away from anything you find at the big box stores or lumber yards - usually WAY too dry, and not very fresh. 

As far as combustion in a #2, it could also be caused by getting up to temp too fast.  I experienced this, and now start my smoker at 130 for the first half-hour, then ramp up the temp to 225.  No more combustion or smoke belch.  Type "smoke belch" in the search box and hit enter - lots of discussion on this.

Questions about your first smoke: 

1.  Did you cook the brisket and chicken leg quarters at the same time? 

2.  How big was the brisket?  Flat or packer cut?

3.  Did you use a water pan during smoking?

Details about what you did during the smoke helps a lot in trying to analyze what caused your problems.

So, before you get too far ahead and start thinking of modifying your smoker, or getting an AMNPS, let's see if we can get you on track with the stock unit.  Many have had the same experiences as you, and we're here to help you through it.  I have done many successful smokes in both a model 1 and a model 2, and I believe they perform incredibly well.  You just have to learn the techniques, make sure you have proper wood, and always keep learning!

Welcome aboard!

 

[tbrtt1]

Thanks Guys.

DM, totally understand about the empty smoker. I am concerned with the wood combusting. The hickory dowels seemed the worst offender and Steve mentioned in an email to me that he thought the dowels contributed to the heating. My jury is still out as to whether or not the dowels are good.

The brisket and chicken was great and I have no complaints about the food. I mentioned it because I cooked it at a relatively low temp to avoid combustion of the wood and this took a little long.

Don't get me wrong, there is no crisis here and I am not planning on ordering an AMNPS and making any mods. I may get an Auber but not because of my combustion concerns, though your suggestions about ramping up heat too quickly may be just extra justification I need to justify getting one.

In a nutshell my concerns are simply:
-Avoiding combustion which contributes to temperature swings
-Avioding combustion which produces acrid grey smoke
-Being able to cook at the 240-250 setting and not have combustion be an issue

Aside form the ramping up heat too quickly issue and the possibility that there is too much oxygen in the chamber, the issue is likely to be the wood. In other words, I don't think it is an issue with my #2. At least I hope not. After all I did get good results soaking the chips and wrapping in foil. To me this points to a wood issue.

I have some Fruitawood coming so I will get to test with quality wood soon.

Its really a kick ass little smoker.

BTW, does anyone use an Auber?. I really like the idea of ramping up the temp slowly, having the smoker cut down to a low temp once IT is reached or even cut off and all that cool automated stuff.

 

[DivotMaker]

Good to hear you're not in panic mode!  That's the only reason I mentioned not rushing into mods and such, as I've seen your issues many times before.  Combustion is more likely in the model 2 and up, as they have much more powerful heating elements.  I never experienced any combustion in my Model 1, but have in the 2.

When you get your Fruitawood, put it in an airtight container (or Ziploc bags) to keep it from drying too much.

As for the Auber question, go to the "Auber Tips and Tricks" section - you'll see there are many happy users!  I highly recommend the Auber for model 2 and 3 owners.  It gives an incredible amount of accuracy, programmability and consistency to your smokes.  I also really like the Auber permanent box temp probe.  Check out the Auber section and you'll find my info on it.

Even without an Auber, you can ramp-up the temp slowly; you just have to pay attention to the settings and time.  Once the wood is heated and smoldering, it reacts a lot differently to the increase in temp.  By starting at 120-130 for half an hour, you get the wood smoking and allow it to "rest" before blasting it up to 225.  I've found this eliminates the combustion.  And yes, I have found combustion to happen more quickly with the hickory dowels.  They are really good, strong, hickory, but may be a little drier than the Fruitawood.  At any rate, ramping-up the temp slower seems to solve this.

Btw, we like names around here, so don't be afraid to put your first name and town in your signature line.  We're kind of a big SI family here, and it's nice to know who we're talking with!   Lots more personal.

 

[rickne]

Another thing to experiment with is where, in the box, you put wood.  I know there are hot spots in the smoke box.  I don't know if they are consistent from cooker to cooker.  Some guys have gotten on the habit of placing wood in certain areas of the box for this reason

I can say that my last cook, I placed a chunk of apple in the front, oak in the middle, and charcoal in the back.  The oak and charcoal were reduced to ash.  The apple in front looked like lump charcoal after 8 hours.

Maybe try the front of the smokebox.

 

[bigbassnutt]

I have a model 2 with the auber and would recommend getting one for yours. It's easy to program your smoker to make it automatic. For example with ribs, I start out with a temp of 110 for 30 minutes then up to 225 for 7 more, I check them at the 6 hour mark and sauce, then usually another 30 minutes or so depending on how they look.  I could program it to shut down if I wanted to but like to just set it for longer than I need then pull them by feel. I did try the quarter covering half the smoke exit hole this last time and it worked really well. Didn't notice any combustion, haven't really since I have been ramping it up. I used wood chips from walmart this last time and they worked great.

 

[DivotMaker]

Good info, Mike.  I haven't tried any WalMart, or lumber yard, wood since early on in my smokes, so I can't give any feedback on how they would perform with our "modified" heating methods.  Guess I'm going to have to get some and experiment a bit.  You may not have noticed, but I kind of like experiments! ;D

 

[tbrtt1]

I have a model 2 with the auber and would recommend getting one for yours. It's easy to program your smoker to make it automatic. For example with ribs, I start out with a temp of 110 for 30 minutes then up to 225 for 7 more, I check them at the 6 hour mark and sauce, then usually another 30 minutes or so depending on how they look.  I could program it to shut down if I wanted to but like to just set it for longer than I need then pull them by feel. I did try the quarter covering half the smoke exit hole this last time and it worked really well. Didn't notice any combustion, haven't really since I have been ramping it up. I used wood chips from walmart this last time and they worked great.

That's great to hear. I have some Fruitawood coming but it would be nice if I could use from almost anywhere. Though I think this Fruitawood will probably last a long time since these smokers are so efficient.

I think I will have to go ahead and get the Auber. Everyone who gets one swears by it.

 

[Paul Case Luca]

Love the Auber. Note always insert probes right and consider a bypass.

For wood I cut a cherry try and have a stack of green wood in the shed. It stays moist just from the natural humidity. Not kiln dried. But not soaked in rain. Rather than cut on band saw into perfect dowels... I'm take a hatchet and splinter off a long piece about a foot long that weighs around two or three or four ounces.  Whatever is needed.

Lucky no issues.

Have apple too.

 

[tbrtt1]

Here is an update of smoke issues:

Fruitawood came in and I have used it twice. Worth every penny. Wonderfully aromatic and as soon as you open the box you can tell/smell the difference between it and store bought wood. Smoking, it smells awesome. I got mesquite and peach. The peach is supposed to be the most underrated smoking wood and used by competition Q-ers. It smells fantastic. Should last me a good while.

However, even when wrapped in foil, when the element is cranking through about the 190* mark and climbing on its way to 225 or 240, (my typical smoking temps), I am still getting a bit of heavy gray smoke for a about 20 minutes. Basically same problem, but even at its worst the Fruitawood is not nearly as offensive. It still smells pretty good and not as scorched as store bought wood. After this initial ramp up and burn off the wood settles and the smoke is thin and blue. My food is coming out tasting great.

My Auber came in and I was able to use it this weekend for a smoke. I'll have to do some experimenting with ramping up the temp to see if I can eliminate the gray smoke completely. But out of the box this thing is the bomb. Stays within 3-4* on the high side of set point and 1-2* on the low side. I will do an auto tune when I have a chance but as it is this is the way to go. I highly recommend it.

Overall, I am pleased with the #2 and highly recommend Fruitawood and the Auber PID.

 

[DivotMaker]

Great update!  I'm a believer in Fruitawood - nothing but success with their wood.  I love peach, especially on pork.  Like you said, underrated, but really good. 

One addition to the Auber that I highly recommend is the fixed probe (available from Auber).  It removes the inconsistency of the removable box temp probe, and is extremely accurate once the autotune is done.  I have a post on installing it under Auber Tips and Tricks:

http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1594.0

Since you have an Auber now, try ramping the temp up slowly to eliminate the gray smoke.  Start with C01 set to 130, E01 t, t01 .6 and see how it goes.  This allows the wood to slowly start smoldering, and then rest for a bit before upping the temp to 225+.  I've found this totally eliminates any combustion and dark gray smoke. 

 

[tbrtt1]

Update: I added the permanent probe which was kinda a saga in itself since Auber had some bad ones and I got 2 of em! Their service was good and prompt and they sent the replacements for free. I had the non permanent box probe so I was still able to smoke without missing a beat.

Well after a few months, despite ramping up the temp using an Auber and using Fruitawood and various other experiments, I was still getting too much acrid, heavy, grayish brown smoke. I did some research and using some feeler gauges determined that my door had way too much leakage. I know, I know, a little coming out of the top is "normal" and "this will seal itself". Well horse crap. This thing was leaking like a sieve and was simply not acceptable.

So I got some high temp rtf sealant and put a nice thin line around the outset edges of the inside of the door. Put some wax paper over that and closed and latched her up for a day. Did a test run with some wood and cranked her to 240. The smoke thinned out considerably and I noticed only the faintest whisper of smoke from an area at the top right corner. Probably a result of my shabby caulking skills. I may scrape it off and have another go at it, but for now the improvement is considerable. I will be going live with a small butt tonight. I post results and notes soon.

 

[DivotMaker]

Hmm...interesting about the bad permanent probes - hadn't heard of that before! 

Good "redneck engineering" solution to the door issue!  Some folks have also used aluminum tape (like for A/C duct work).  The idea is to get the compression fit tighter.  So, I wonder if bending the door latches to provide more pressure might accomplish the same, with the use of tape or sealer?  Just thinking out loud...I mean, it's a flat door, and a compression fit, right?  Well, the item that provides the compression is the latch system.  So, if anything needs to be adjusted to provide greater compression, it makes sense that it would be the latches.  If I had this problem, I think I would bend the door latch levers more to provide greater compression. 

 

[bigbassnutt]

Curious, are you using the chip screen? I have had no issues with smoke belching using the screen. I do use the ramp up method as a rule too. I am thinking maybe the chip screen restricts a little of the air flow through the smoke box. I have used several different kinds of woods and currently using chips from walmart with no issues.

 

[Pork Belly]

I agree with Bigbassnut, I leave my chip screen in all the time. I think it cuts down on available O2. I have never had a combustion problem, including off color or large volumes of smoke. Even when I crank it directly to 250 i don't have issues. Reducing the O2 is the only way to control combustion.

 

[tbrtt1]

Update to the update: Something is still not right. Dry run seemed OK early in the day, then I put on a butt late last night. Used the same type wood, the new hickory and wild cherry I received early in the week from Fruitawood. Even before 200* there was some small belches and some nasty smoke. I shut her down and cooled. Then I put the wood, the exact wood from the wood box and wrapped in foil and poked only a couple of holes in it. STILL GETTING SOME thick grayish/white smoke!

 

[DivotMaker]

The picture may be deceiving, but that does not look like smoke I'd be worried about.  It's always going to be pretty heavy when it first starts smoking, but will "thin-out" a little while into the smoke.  I wouldn't worry much about that.  Does it have a real acrid smell to it, or does it smell like hickory smoke?  You also might try the chip insert thing, or foil from the beginning.

 

[tbrtt1]

DM,

Thanks for your fast and informative responses, and others as well. Nice to have a wealth of knowledge to draw from.

The pics are misleading in that it doesn't look as heavy in the pics. Trust me, it is fairly heavy for a while. You can see beautiful TBS in the early ramp up that smells heavenly, almost like incense. Then watch it get grey and heavy, at times even brownish. Very distinct difference. And last night I was getting the dreaded belches. A few small ones. It had to be shut down. Obviously igniting the wood a bit.

Yes, the smoke is acrid and foul smelling at times. And yes, I occasionally can taste traces of it in the food. Chicken seems to be the worst and I have had some that was borderline. The heartier pieces of meat can withstand the 30-60 minutes of bad smoke. In fact the pork butt I did last night actually turned out to be maybe the best thing I have done yet in the #2. Briskets are excellent. Ribs can be less than stellar but mostly excellent.

The main issue, as I see it, with the period of acrid smoke is it gives me no room for error. I have to put just the right amount of wood in it. Too little and it not smokey enough and it can still have a slight hint of that acrid bitter taste. Too much and it is too smokey and acrid as well. If I hit it just right, its fantastic. Though I must confess, I have only had one batch of chicken that was completely inedible. Everything else is enjoyable. I just think it could be more consistent.

I cleaned off the sealant and reapplied. I had noticed that I may have not had the sealant close enough to the edge in spots. The door overlaps the least at the bottom. This may contribute to the problem.

I will wrap in foil from now on and see how things go.

 

[DivotMaker]

Sounds like you definitely have some combustion going on! ("Thank you Capt Obvious!").  lol.  Try doing a search, from the index page, for "combustion" and "belch."  You'll see 30 results for each.  This topic has actually been covered quite a bit, and you might get some other ideas from the posts.  This is something I never experienced in the #1, and have only experienced a few times in the (bigger element) #2.  I've found ramping the temp up slowly helps - but that's what works for me.  Check out what others, outside this thread, have found.