Need ideas to improve the cook (smoke flavor/moisture)

[snakyjake]

Asking for help improving these areas of my first smoke:
1)  Smoke flavor too light.
2)  Meat needs more moisture.

Cook profile:
* Pork Butt
* 8 lbs
* Oven temp 225F
* Meat temp 190F
* 18 Hours
* 7+ ounces of hickory chunks (Smoking Guide documentation said 5-6 oz)
* Water pan
* Fat side on top.

Ideas?
What is everyone doing? 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Durangosmoker]

I always brine my butts before smoking them.  Use your favorite brine, or use Tony's (Divot Maker's) excellent Brine for Pulled Pork:

http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1012.0

Also, be sure to wrap it in foil and let it rest in a cooler covered with towels for a while after removing it from the smoker to allow the juices to be reabsorbed back into the meat.  If you pull it too soon, you will loose all those yummy juices.

Good Luck!

 

[NDKoze]

I don't understand how you are not getting enough smoke flavor unless you are not using high quality smoking wood.

Where did you buy your wood?

You said you used a butt, but just wanted to confirm that you meant a Boston Butt and not a picnic roast.

Did you brine? I brine 95% of my butts and I have never had one that was not super moist.

After hitting 190 internal temp, did you double-foil and rest in a cooler with some towels on top? If so, for how long? I rest for a minimum of an hour, but prefer 2-4 hours.

Where did you place your water pan?

 

[old sarge]

I have never had a butt that was dry or lacking in smokiness. And I do not brine. Nor have I used a pan of water or other liquid except for brisket. If you are using good wood and getting smoke, but not sufficient for your taste, you might try injecting a liquid of your choice mixed with liquid smoke.

 

[DivotMaker]

With 7+ oz. of hickory, you should be getting a good smoky taste, unless your taste is used to BBQ that has been over-smoked.  The smoke flavor should complement the meat, but not overpower the taste of the meat itself.  I smoked a 8 lb Boston butt yesterday (brined for 13 hours, 7 oz. of hickory & cherry, 13 hours to hit 190 at box temp of 235), and it was perfect!  Good smokiness, very moist and flavorful!  This is a technique that I feel I've pretty much perfected, and the outcome is so predictable.  People that eat my pulled pork don't say much, until it's gone, then they scream for more!

Not trying to brag, by any means, but you have to practice until you find the technique that works for you, and you, too, find that consistency of results!  Like the guys mentioned, the quality of the wood you're using may be part of your problem.  If your wood is too dry, and catching fire, it will burn up before the "smoking process" is complete.  Also, are you starting with a cold smoker and cold meat?  If you let your meat warm to room temp (as many traditional smokers do), you will not get good smoke penetration (cold meat absorbs smoke better).

There has to be something in your prep or technique that we're not seeing, so any other details will help!

 

[snakyjake]

Thanks for the good advice, and there are some new techniques to try out...

Oven was approximately 65F.  Meat was 39F.

I get the pork butt from Costco (comes in two separated pieces per package), not sure which kind (guess it was picnic).  I noticed the bottom is sliced up, and wonder how well it would hold juice.  The top has a layer of fat.  Didn't see much fat anywhere else.  Not much fat was left when pulled either.  I only cooked half (8 oz) for my first cook, and still have the other half for another cook.  Maybe the #3 cooks 8 oz differently than smaller cookers?

Water pan is on the bottom floor, middle, up against the wood holder.  Not much evaporated.  Though the oils may have went into the water pan.

For wood, there was a small bit still left, so I presume it didn't catch fire and burn up.  I use Char-Broil hickory chunks from a .75 cu-ft bag that I get from Home Depot.  The wood chunks have bark.  If that's not good quality, can someone recommend could someone please recommend a quality source?

The pork came out sorta dry with no juice, so wrapping at the end of the cook I doubt would make a difference. 
 
I'll try brining next time.  I've been interested in doing this technique for a while.

Thinking about adding more than 7oz of wood.  I love smoke like a heavy cigar, just don't want the meat to taste rancid or acidic (that's my perception of the flavor).

Does anyone use mustard or anything else to help collect smoke?  Or perhaps the moisture from the brine helps a lot?

 

[snakyjake]

I read DivotMaker's brining post...Interesting how the cook was 10.5 hours, while mine went 18 hours to 190F.  Maybe the bone makes a difference?

 

[NDKoze]

Costco only sells boneless Boston Butts, so that is most likely part of the problem. The boneless butts work great for making Buckboard Bacon when you want thinner bacon sized chunks. But for pulled pork, you really want to try to find bone-in Boston Butts. If you have a Sam's Club nearby, that is where I get all of my Boston Butts from. They come in a two-pack like the Costco ones, but they are bone-in.

When using Boneless Butts, you would want to try to wrap them up around the spot where the bone used to be and tie them up with some butchers string. It wouldn't be as good as a bone-in, but it may help with the process.

Most definitely use a binder like Mustard (my preference for butts/ribs), oil, syrup, or molasses. This will help most with providing a nice chewy bark that so many of us covet.

Most big-box store wood like Home Depot is notoriously dry and not very good. Many if not most of us here have converted over to www.smokinlicious.com for our wood. But, places like www.fruitawood.com and www.mainegrillingwoods.com also have quality smoking wood.

Your 18 hours may seem a tad high, but in my experience smoking at my preferred temp of 225, 1.5-2.0 hours per pound plus and extra couple of hours is pretty standard. So, your 18 hours is definitely not out of the ordinary. I think the added time was because of the boneless butt.

If you are an early morning person, you should be able to put your butts on in the early morning and run at 235 and shorten your cook time to closer to the 1.5 hours per pound range. I am NOT a morning person at all, so I put mine on at 11:00pm-12:00am and smoke at 225 and my butts are usually ready mid-afternoon which provides a nice 2-4 hours of rest double-wrapped in foil and in my cooler with a couple of towels placed on top for insulation.

It is VERY important to wrap and rest your butt after your internal temp has been acheived. Without this step any juice that would be in the butt will pour out of the meat when you start pulling it. In your case with your bonelss butt, it seems that most of the juice may have already been gone, but this will not typically be the case.

 

[DivotMaker]

+1 on Gregg's comments.

A lot of my butts (bone-in Boston butts...the only "real" butt for pulled pork) average 1 - 1.5 hours (from Sam's).  The one I did Sunday took slightly over 1.5 hours/lb, but that's not unreasonable.  Boneless will always take longer because, yes, the bone does make a difference!  I will always choose cuts with a bone, if possible.  It acts a heat sink & heat conductor, inside the meat, and just makes it cook better!

I use mustard for a binder, and either Famous Dave's Rib Rub or Bad Byron's Butt Rub, and get fantastic, chewy bark!  I also smoke them at 235 vs. 225, and can't tell a difference, other than time!

This is a learning process!  Not hard, once you get a few under your belt (and in your belly), but seeing how different techniques, temps, times work is the key.  You will find what works best for you, with practice!

 

[SconnieQ]

Gregg's comments are right on. Even though I have a Sam's in town, I do not have a membership (can't justify two memberships to wholesale clubs). I have a membership to Costco, based on the kick-ass PRIME whole packer briskets they sell. So...I am also stuck with the boneless Boston butts at Costco. I think they are okay, but #1, you should brine them, and #2, tying them into a more compact shape with cotton butcher twine helps a lot. Place your butt bundles on the rack with seam side up to capture the juices while they cook.

 

[DivotMaker]

I have a membership to Costco, based on the kick-ass PRIME whole packer briskets they sell. So...I am also stuck with the boneless Boston butts at Costco.

Kari, Sam's bone-in Boston butt 2 packs are on-par with your Costco Prime brisket...they're that good, thus easily justifying 2 club memberships!   (You're welcome, and the family will understand what I'm talking about when they eat your first pulled pork from one!)

 

[Jax]

My 3D is on the way.  I should have it tomorrow night, so I will put together and season the unit on Saturday.  Since I will be new to cooking with electric, the thing that popped out at me in this thread is cooking anything for 18 hours.  Again I have always cooked using wood and charcoal so I could not imagine slow cooking a piece of meat that long. 

 

[ibbones]

  Again I have always cooked using wood and charcoal so I could not imagine slow cooking a piece of meat that long.

Jax, I am a newbe here also but not to electric smoking.  I have only smoked one butt on the SI and another one going in tonight.  I usually put them on around 10:00pm to Midnight and they are ready for supper the next day.  Some were not through cooking and some were ready the next morning and I had to keep it hot until time to eat.
The great thing about the SI is I set my temp, put my brined butt in and go to bed.  That's it.
Many more people will have better answers but I love smoking with the SI.  Never again will I be using fire to smoke food.

 

[Glock_21]

My 3D is on the way.  I should have it tomorrow night, so I will put together and season the unit on Saturday.  Since I will be new to cooking with electric, the thing that popped out at me in this thread is cooking anything for 18 hours.  Again I have always cooked using wood and charcoal so I could not imagine slow cooking a piece of meat that long.

A lot of my smokes in the #3 easily go 18 hours or more.  In the beginning I thought something was wrong with the unit or my process.  I have learned that it is what it is.  "Low and slow", plan ahead and let the box do its work.  Good things come to those who wait!!

 

[flying smoker]

++1 on smokinlicious wood.  I've used the wood that came with the SI and bought a bag of chips from a former pit master (2x champ at Memphis in May) and suffered the consequences of combustion during the cook (from the bag of wood, not the SI provided).  Ordered wood from smokinlicous on Fri, got an email on Mon with fedex tracking number, wood arrived Wed...  Fantastic results Sat.  One cubic foot cost around $40.  The pieces are big enough to likely need splitting (I weigh my wood with digital kitchen scales).  I'd guess I've got enough wood for more than 200 smokes, assuming I split 2/3 of the pieces.

BTW, smokinlicious has a "match your cooker" tab on their site so you can ensure to buy the correct product from them.  There's no need to guess b/c the SI smokers have made their list.  They tell you exactly which wood type to oder from them.  You only have to decide the flavor(s) you want.

 

[NDKoze]

  Again I have always cooked using wood and charcoal so I could not imagine slow cooking a piece of meat that long.

Jax, I am a newbe here also but not to electric smoking.  I have only smoked one butt on the SI and another one going in tonight.  I usually put them on around 10:00pm to Midnight and they are ready for supper the next day.  Some were not through cooking and some were ready the next morning and I had to keep it hot until time to eat.
The great thing about the SI is I set my temp, put my brined butt in and go to bed.  That's it.
Many more people will have better answers but I love smoking with the SI.  Never again will I be using fire to smoke food.

Exactly how I do it. Works every time.

 

[old sarge]

Jay - I came from an offset stick burner and went lazy/electric.  Think of electric smoking as a sort of crock pot/slow cooker. Painless and delicious results. Keep a journal of weather temps, meat and weight, wood type and amount (in ounces), smoker temp and internal temp for those large cuts, so that you can adjust or repeat depending upon results.  After a while, you will go by instinct.

 

[DivotMaker]

Imagine it, Jax!  Wrap your mind around the concept of "low and slow," and you'll be a true BBQ pit master in no time!  Save the charcoal & wood burners for the steaks and grilled chicken, but embrace your 3D to give you moist, succulent, tender smoked BBQ!

 

[Perkolater]

Asking for help improving these areas of my first smoke:
1)  Smoke flavor too light.
2)  Meat needs more moisture.

Cook profile:
* Pork Butt
* Fat side on top.

Ideas?
What is everyone doing? 

Thanks in advance.

Jax,
Not much I could add to all the other comments but the one thing no one commented on was the 'fat side up' in your cook profile.  While others may disagree here and it is not the main culprit in your dissatisfaction, it is (now) my belief you should smoke fat side down on these SI smokers.  Not what I was accustomed to on wood burners but it makes some sense because the protection from the proximity to the heating element that the fat gives to your meat outweighs the traditional idea that the fat on top adds juice/moisture.  These cookers are super efficient in the moisture area but the heating element can swing pretty widely over some 18 hours of smoke and that fat blanket offers just a little added protection from the temps.
Just my two cents.

 

[DivotMaker]

Hey Jake, you try one of the bone-in Boston butts yet, using our recommendations?