Smokin-It User Forum!
Smokin-It Smokers => Model 4D - The Big Daddy! => Topic started by: scotsys on July 27, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
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Does anybody know why the manual emphasizes "DO NOT PREHEAT YOUR SMOKER"?
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Hmm, I don't recall that warning when I got my smoker but I was probably overcome with the irrational compulsion to season and smoke as soon as I got the packing material off.
I do know that a big reason not to preheat is to allow the meat more time to come up to temp and get a full dose of smoke under controlled conditions; if you open it once it hits 225 you'll lose the accumulated smoke and with the small amount of wood we use in these systems that would be difficult (if not impossible) to replace. I'd drop an email to Steve to confirm the reason for this ... it's an interesting caution in a manual, that's for sure.
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It is not so much a warning as it more of a "not necessary". The same holds true with other similar smokers. But there are a couple of considerations:
1. Pre-heating would require one to handle the woodbox when hot and that could cause a burn.
2. Opening the door to place the food in the oven as well as place the wood in the box would release most of the heat, thereby negating the purpose of pre-heating.
Hope that helps.
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Sarge, this heating element is so powerful, I left the door open for almost a minute to take the picture and add a little more hickory, and the red light went off maybe 2 minutes after that. The quote from the little flyer that came with it says:
"DO NOT pre-heat your smoker. DO NOT leave your smoker unattended."
Maybe it is only precautionary, but most of the things I have read tell you not to put the meat in until the smoker has come up to the desired temperature. Since I followed the instructions and ran it for 4 hours to season it, it just seems strange.
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With this type of smoker you want to take your meat from the fridge straight to the smoker, then turn it on.
With the cold meat in the smoker, the element will stay on longer to get your wood smoldering...........
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Excellent point Smokeasaurus.
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That explains it. Logical reasoning. Thanks, smokeasaurus.
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The other reason to start with cold meat is length of time for smoke exposure. Since meat is going to stop absorbing smoke around 140-degrees, starting out colder to start helps. I usually show internal temp of 35 when I put mine on from the fridge, so that gives me however long it takes to climb 105-degrees of smoke penetration.
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For those that like a smoke ring, I'd think waiting for the smoke to roll before putting in the cold meat would be the way to go.
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For those that like a smoke ring, I'd think waiting for the smoke to roll before putting in the cold meat would be the way to go.
Sorry, Dave - you won't ever get a smoke ring out of an electric smoker, by way of smoke only. You can get a "faux" ring by adding a little pink curing salt to a brine, but that's it.
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The temperature doesn't get hot enough to cause the chemical reaction that causes the smoke ring. Smoldering wood wont do it! The good news is that, the ring adds nothing to flavor but is visually reproduceable via intacure#1.
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Which raises a whole other question on why these top end units have temperature limiters on them? It is why I'm fighting myself on choosing an electric.
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Dave, the vast majority of meat you'll smoke in these smokers is low and slow (under 250). If you want to exceed 250, you can add the Auber PID and bypass the stock controller. Leave the high-temp cooks for the grill or charcoal/stick burner. The low, slow, moisture-controlled environment of the SI is absolutely perfect for producing some really stellar Q!
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If I recall, the 4 comes with a PID, so that limitation doesn't apply.
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Divot, I hear what you are saying but for the price, it seems like the smoker should give us the option to smoke at whatever temp we prefer. The Auber is a "work around" to a system that could easily be as flexible as a Traeger and capable of temps to 350 plus. Don't mind me though, it's just a head scratcher in my world.
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Dave,
Regarding the smoke ring: Ain't going to happen. Not even if you add charcoal to the box. Been there and done that. If it wasn't for the 6 pack of PBR, it would have been a waste of my time.
Don't open the door when the smoke gets rolling. You will be engulfed in smoke. Lots of it.
I have an electric that hits 300. Never use it. No need to. 225/235 is the sweet spot.
I have a crock pot that cannot get hot enough to fry an egg. Wasn't designed to.
I have an offset stick burner that can get as hot as you want. Terrific smoke ring. But it drove me nuts trying to keep it below 300, preferably 250. That and tending to its appetite for fuel every couple of hours convinced me electric was the way to go. Never looked back.
Hope this helps set your mind at ease.
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Well-said, Dave - as usual! ;)
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One tries.
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I do not own a Trager but have done several smokes and have grilled on a large Trager. I find that they are decent grill that produce good food but...
It is too hot to cold smoke, and has a substantial hot spot in the center on smokes in the 240-250 range. On the other end you cant get it scalding hot to sear a steak. It will grill a steak but not as fast and hot as I like.
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Re-visiting this topic in relation to my other thread about how long it takes to get the box up to desired cook temps, I am going to start preheating my smoker before adding my meat. I'm not seeing a downside to doing it.
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As mentioned several times earlier in this thread, don't you want your meat in the smoke as long as possible since it can only absorb heat until the internal temp hits 140. Pre-heating will shorten the time in the smoke absorption range (up to 140).
Also, I guess I just don't see the purpose of pre-heating. What is the benefit? There are several downside reasons for pre-heating listed above.
Are you concerned about getting the meat up to 140 within 4 hours? I have never had this be an issue as the rise to 140 is usually pretty quick. But this is really the only possible benefit that I can think of.
It is quite possible that I am missing something though. It has been known to happen. ;)
As always, there are more than just one way of doing things and if this works better for you that's great. I am just trying to understand the benefit or purpose for doing this.
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I might be missing something too. I'm not seeing how the meat sitting in a cold, smokeless smoker is of any advantage. Smoke starting at the minute the cold meat is placed into the smoker seems like it would provide the longest exposure to smoke in my mind. And programming 230 degrees on my Auber and waiting for an hour and a half for it to get there is driving me freaking nuts!!!! LOL! I know, short drive. ;)
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While it seems like it is taking a long time to get to 230, it should start smoking well before that.
I usually start getting smoke within 10-15 minutes and I run my smoker at 140 for 45 minutes before cranking up to 235.
So, are you saying that you are not adding your wood until the same time that you add your meat? That seems like too much hassle to me. I just throw everything in the smoker crank it up to 140 for 45 minutes, then up to 235 and walk away until it is done.
In the end, I am not sure how much this all really matters, but I was just trying to understand the method to your madness ;)
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This might all change with summer conditions but typical morning ambient box temps start at 40 - 50 degrees. What I'm planning to do as an adjustment is load the wood, turn on the smoker and wait for the first sign of smoke. The box temp should be 50 - 100 degrees warmer by the time the first sign of smoke appears. And like you said, that probably takes minutes where starting cold that box temp climb would take 2 - 3 times that long. ??? I don't know, we'll see. Another experiment waiting to be played out.
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Dave, summer or winter, I usually start seeing smoke at about the 12-15 minute range in my #2, which is about 70° above ambient temp when I start. I know the #4 is a lot bigger, but the element is too, and the smoke box is just as close to it as on any other model. Is it taking longer than 15 minutes to start seeing smoke? Not that I see a problem with a pre-heat in a big 'ol #4, I (like Gregg) am just trying to understand the benefit.
You mentioned that smoke hitting the cold meat the minute it hits the smoker. I understand your thought process on that, but you also have to remember that the meat temp will climb much faster in a hot smoker, too. It may be a wash, either way. Yes, your impatience to hit 140° will be shorter, ;) , but I don't think you'll be gaining anything so far as smoke penetration.
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Dave, I am using the "progressive smoke" you taught me and I get smoke in 5-10 minutes. Are you doing something else now?
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I have no impatience about reaching the 140 and in fact don't really subscribe to the rule anymore than people eating 145 degree pork. I guess my impatience, if you want to call it that, is waiting an hour and a half to get to my desired cook temp. I've also been debating on whether another auto tune with something else in the box might program a quicker heat up time.
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Dave, I am using the "progressive smoke" you taught me and I get smoke in 5-10 minutes. Are you doing something else now?
Getting smoke generation quick enough but as stated above, way too long to reach 230 for my liking.
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Yes, that is true. Took me an hour+ today to reach a stable 235 on the#3. I was smoking pork loin and it was done in 2 hours. Glad I get smoke quickly now.
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I have no impatience about reaching the 140 and in fact don't really subscribe to the rule anymore than people eating 145 degree pork. I guess my impatience, if you want to call it that, is waiting an hour and a half to get to my desired cook temp. I've also been debating on whether another auto tune with something else in the box might program a quicker heat up time.
Maybe a poor choice of word, Dave - "impatience." I know what you mean about the time it takes to get to set temp. But, during that climb, you are getting smoke and "low and slow" cooking happening! This is where the magic happens in BBQ, I believe. Plus, the final times for cooking reflect that warmup, so what does it matter?