Smokin-It User Forum!
Smokin-It Smokers => Model 2 & 2D - The Middle Kid => Topic started by: 1stlink on April 18, 2015, 08:21:42 AM
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Most of us have a 700w element in our model #2. Steve now offers a 800w element and I'm thinking that it would be useful to attain smoking temps faster and possible be more efficient with or without the Auber.
Any thoughts? Has anyone already done the upgrade?
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I'm waiting for someone to try a #3 or #4 element in a #2. LOL!
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Good luck with that Dave, the #4 is huge. ;D
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I have a new 800w, Ralph, but haven't installed yet. I'll let you know! 100 extra watts is bound to make a difference in "time to temp!" As Tim the "Tool man" Taylor would have said - MORE POWER!! ARGH ARGH ARGH!!! 8)
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Thanks Tony for the reply and I totally agree with Tim the tool man Taylor. Lol
I have already responded to your other post regarding heating element but
I will be looking forward to your review when you have time to install and review.
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Order placed for 800w replacement element this AM. Kind of a pain to remove that Glass Insulation again. :'( Autotune will require reading as my memory ain't what it used to be. LOL
However I'm looking forward to the anticipated improved performance! :)
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I have an 800W #2. Smoked yesterday for the first time and internal temp at start was 64 degrees. It got up to temp of 235 in 15-20 minutes.
As far as holding temp, I have read where a 30 degree swing, 15 above and 15 below was the standard with the 700W. That is exactly what I was experiencing as well.
Hope this helps.
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I have an 800W #2. Smoked yesterday for the first time and internal temp at start was 64 degrees. It got up to temp of 235 in 15-20 minutes.
As far as holding temp, I have read where a 30 degree swing, 15 above and 15 below was the standard with the 700W. That is exactly what I was experiencing as well.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Mike, Much slower on my 700w model #2 at least 30 min.
Element size will not affect temp swings Which are a product of the analog controller. PID controller holds temp swings to 1 or 2 degrees.
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It would be interesting to do a little watts per cubic inch of smoker volume for the 4 units to see how much variance there is. My #4 has always taken a long time to heat up.
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I have an 800W #2. Smoked yesterday for the first time and internal temp at start was 64 degrees. It got up to temp of 235 in 15-20 minutes.
As far as holding temp, I have read where a 30 degree swing, 15 above and 15 below was the standard with the 700W. That is exactly what I was experiencing as well.
Hope this helps.
Man, that's great! My 700w element takes at least 30-40 minutes to hit 225+. I didn't get to install the new 800 this weekend (too many other honey dos), but you sure have me excited to get it in there now! Also, I didn't put it in because I knew I wouldn't have time to re-autotune the Auber, which will have to be done if you upgrade. :(
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800w element received Wed, installed Thursday, and autotuned today. No smoke scheduled yet but it will be soon.
PID numbers are quite different.
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Hoping to get mine in this weekend, Ralph! We'll compare together! ;)
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Tony,
Externally they are 100% identical but I am hoping that it is what is inside that counts I didn't have access to an ohmmeter at that time or I could have read the resistance in each.
This is my third modification of my smoker and hopefully the last. I'm thinking that I should have put a hinge on the back cover. Lol ;)
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Hey folks,
I think I might need to step up to the 800 watts as I smoked to today and it's been going for 1 hour and 40 minutes, the temp is only 176. How hard is it to install? I'm not mechanically inclined at all. Appreciate any and all feedback.
Tony
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Hey folks,
I think I might need to step up to the 800 watts as I smoked to today and it's been going for 1 hour and 40 minutes, the temp is only 176. How hard is it to install? I'm not mechanically inclined at all. Appreciate any and all feedback.
Tony
Tony, you have to be a little mechanical, but it's not bad. The worst part is dealing with the insulation! Surely you have a buddy that knows his way around a few tools (Phillip's head screwdriver and 9/16" wrench)? That's all you need.
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Did a test this morning on my #2 to see how fast it heats up.
My smoker is a 800 watt, by passed with a fixed probe 2" from top and auber controlled. Outside temp was 74 degrees.
Set auber for 325 degrees and time 2hrs. Foil on wood box and bottom. No wood, water, or heat sink. Empty cabinet.
Results;
15 minutes 152 degrees
30 minutes 240 degrees
40 minutes 285 degrees (pulsing starts at this point)
45 minutes 297 degrees
60 minutes 312 degrees
75 minutes 324 degrees
76 minutes 325 degrees target hit (1 hr 16 min)
Auber over ran by 1 degree and held steady at 325-326
During a regular cook, times will be different than above. A lot has to do with air temp, target setting and amount of meat in smoker.
Last rib cook was done at 63 degrees. It took 1 hr and 10 minutes to hit my 235 target.
If I averaged my cooks I would say it takes right around 60 minutes to hit a 225-235 target with a 1 degree over run.
Hope this helps those thinking about upgrading their heating element.
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very good work thanks for sharing. achieving cooking temperatures with a 800 watt element is much quicker. :)
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Really good info.
If am reading this right without the Auber the rest of us can expect to hit around 250 degrees in around 35 minutes.
I realize that with food and temp, that will change the outcome!
Thanks for sharing Greg
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Dave, nice work! One question, raised by your data "pulsing starts" at 285: Did you autotune, or adjust your P, I and D settings at all? This seems low to start pulsing the power.
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Tony, my P value in auto tune is 42. I start pulsing at around 40 degrees prior to set temp. I've read a definition on here where cycling is supposedly to start at 10% of the P value in degrees but have always been at the actual P value.
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Super Dave, my values are 62, 102 and 912 in the #2. I'm going to have to see where it starts pulsing, but I don't think mine starts 40° below target temp. I'll check, though. Never really thought about this one before!
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When mine blinks, it must happen in micro seconds. I think the power output is super graduated in order to keep such a tight control on temp. As we know, a lot tighter than an oven.
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Super Dave, my values are 62, 102 and 912 in the #2. I'm going to have to see where it starts pulsing, but I don't think mine starts 40° below target temp. I'll check, though. Never really thought about this one before!
Tony, for what it's worth, my Model 2 numbers after change to 800w element: P-64 - I-675 - D-168 As I recollect mine does start pulsing well before target temp. I'll watch in the future for exact time.
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Dave, nice work! One question, raised by your data "pulsing starts" at 285: Did you autotune, or adjust your P, I and D settings at all? This seems low to start pulsing the power.
Tony,
After I had my Auber replaced I did not like the new auto tune settings I was getting. I put my original numbers in from my old Auber and that is what I have been using.
P=57
I=826
D=206
Those are the settings I used for this test. They seem to settle best on target with 1 to 2 degree over run.
I would like it to get to target, during a normal cook, a little faster but do not want to change how it settles right on target and stays there.
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Really good info.
If am reading this right without the Auber the rest of us can expect to hit around 250 degrees in around 35 minutes.
I realize that with food and temp, that will change the outcome!
Thanks for sharing Greg
Greg,
I don't know if that would be true. When I got my smoker I by passed and Aubered before I used it. I'm not sure how the original controller handles the ramp up and at what point it starts to pulse (If it does). Maybe someone else can answer your question that has taken the time to document this.
I can tell you this , if I set for 250 I will not get there at 35 minutes. Later today I'll set for 250 and give you the exact readings every 15 minutes so you can compare.
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Really good info.
If am reading this right without the Auber the rest of us can expect to hit around 250 degrees in around 35 minutes.
I realize that with food and temp, that will change the outcome!
Thanks for sharing Greg
Greg,
I don't know if that would be true. When I got my smoker I by passed and Aubered before I used it. I'm not sure how the original controller handles the ramp up and at what point it starts to pulse (If it does). Maybe someone else can answer your question that has taken the time to document this.
I can tell you this , if I set for 250 I will not get there at 35 minutes. Later today I'll set for 250 and give you the exact readings every 15 minutes so you can compare.
Hey Dave,
That would be great, I plan to do the same this weekend. At some point the heating element will start to go bad and if I know what the temp will be at 30-1 hr it will give me a benchmark.
Greg
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Here are the results I promised.
Everything is the same as above except target now is 250 degrees and air temp is 80 degrees.
15 minutes 155
23 minutes 210 pulsing starts (again 40 degrees from target)
26 minutes 225
30 minutes 234
45 minutes 247
52 minutes 250 Target hit
60 minutes 250 no overrun
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Here are the results I promised.
Everything is the same as above except target now is 250 degrees and air temp is 80 degrees.
15 minutes 155
23 minutes 210 pulsing starts (again 40 degrees from target)
26 minutes 225
30 minutes 234
45 minutes 247
52 minutes 250 Target hit
60 minutes 250 no overrun
Thanks Dave,
I will run a test on my #2 this weekend and let you know.
Greg
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Super Dave, my values are 62, 102 and 912 in the #2. I'm going to have to see where it starts pulsing, but I don't think mine starts 40° below target temp. I'll check, though. Never really thought about this one before!
Tony, for what it's worth, my Model 2 numbers after change to 800w element: P-64 - I-675 - D-168 As I recollect mine does start pulsing well before target temp. I'll watch in the future for exact time.
I haven't re-tuned after the 800w upgrade yet, Ralph. The old numbers are working fine, so I just left it. I'll probably re-tune soon, just to see if they change.
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Here are the results I promised.
Everything is the same as above except target now is 250 degrees and air temp is 80 degrees.
15 minutes 155
23 minutes 210 pulsing starts (again 40 degrees from target)
26 minutes 225
30 minutes 234
45 minutes 247
52 minutes 250 Target hit
60 minutes 250 no overrun
Dave here are the results from my test on my #2 smoker tonight.
(https://www.smokinitforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi375.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo191%2Fgregbooras%2Fguide_zpslfhhwdzv.jpg&hash=61f2acdca1a9f9fb357e77298bdf6209ee4bddd5) (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/gregbooras/media/guide_zpslfhhwdzv.jpg.html)
Greg
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All this tuning stuff, P, I, D, Pulsing, has me really confused. I know its for the Auber but don't know what the hell ya'll are talking about...lol
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Greg,
That's very interesting and clearly shows how the two build heat differently.
Nice to see the results displayed side by side. I never realized that the stock controller was either on or off. I assumed it pulsed. Now I understand why everyone has the big temperature swings.
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All this tuning stuff, P, I, D, Pulsing, has me really confused. I know its for the Auber but don't know what the hell ya'll are talking about...lol
That's quite alright, Mike! Definitely "BBQ Nerd" stuff, but you certainly don't need it to make great Q with the SI! ;)