Author Topic: Charcoal in wood box  (Read 7371 times)

James R Brown

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Charcoal in wood box
« on: September 24, 2016, 02:54:46 PM »
Hello, new SI2 owner here preparing for first smoke, a small 3 lb. brisket. I did two 3 hr. seasonings and have followed all the suggestions for foil, bought a scale and weighed my wood chunks and will use a small water pan. Also brining as we speak. Couple of questions: I read somewhere that using a single charcoal briquette in the box along with the wood is good for additional flavor and helps with the smoke ring, is this true? Also, how long should I leave a brisket of this size in the brine? I'm guessing about 5 to 6 hrs. and will start it at 10:00 am tomorrow. Any and all suggestions welcome.

Thanks, Rick
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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drains

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2016, 03:21:44 PM »
I don't believe there is enough oxygen in the smoking chamber to form a traditional authentic smoke ring so just rub the brisket with some curing salt(the pink stuff) also known as Prague powder. Leave it on about 20 to 30 minutes then rinse well and smoke then bingo you'll have a nice smoke ring when you slice the brisket and everyone is impressed. It is readily available at most butcher shops. I got mine from the meat market manager at HEB in my hometown. It's just for looks anyway, it doesn't make the meat taste any better. Just eye candy. Do a search on smoke rings and you'll get a lot of info and opinions on this subject.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:27:06 PM by drains »
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James R Brown

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2016, 04:36:58 PM »
Thanks for the tip. I think I'm more worried about how long to leave the meat in the brine, I'd much rather take it out too soon as opposed to too long. It's been in for 3.5 hrs. now. My plan is to leave it in overnight, too long?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 05:32:20 PM by chesster51 »
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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Glock_21

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 05:47:07 PM »

I have used charcoal in the smoke box before.  I didn't notice any difference.  I don't use it anymore.
I use Morton Tender Quick to get the faux smoke ring on brisket, about a tablespoon for 30 - 45 minutes and then rinse well.

I generally brine for 12-14 hours.  I tweak the amount of salt in the brine based on the situation.  If I know something will run much longer than 12 hours in the brine then I will back off of the salt.

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SconnieQ

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 11:32:48 PM »
I'd be concerned about sprinkling pink salt (Prague Powder) directly on the meat. That stuff is potent! And is meant to be mixed in small amounts with other ingredients (salt, sugar, etc). Nitrites are dangerous in high concentrations. You'd really need to be careful about lightly applying, and rinsing and possibly soaking it off. Morton Tender Quick has a much lower level of nitrite, and is available at pretty much every grocery store, near the salt. It's really easy to use. You don't really need to measure it. Just give your brisket a good dusting, and rinse off after 30 minutes. Do this step shortly before smoking. If you do it too far in advance (such as several hours or the night before), your pink ring will keep expanding toward the center, even though you've rinsed it off.

I remember hearing that charcoal thing when I first bought my smoker too. I don't think anyone here does that. I don't think it really works, and I don't see any flavor advantages.
Kari from Madison WI "77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality"
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James R Brown

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 05:53:49 PM »
Thanks guys. It's 5:50 and brisket went in at 12:00. Reading 165 IT right now. I brined for 17 hrs. and let it get happy with a binder of mustard, cane syrup and bacon grease and a rub for 4 hrs. Not sure how long I'm going to be able to let it rest after reaching temp though. This was my first one and next time I'll get it in the smoker much earlier. I also injected some apple juice just prior to going in. I'll report back with results later.
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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James R Brown

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 09:16:42 PM »
Well, it was good, but not as good as it could have been. I had to pull it at 8:00, we were starving. IT only got to 180, so never reached the sweet spot and no rest period. I was surprised after 8 hours a three pounder was not done. The chamber temps ranged from 210 to 240 and for the last hour I turned the smoker dial up to 235 and seen chamber temps up to 260. It was still very good and moist but not butter soft. Looking forward to giving it another shot next weekend with some adjustments.
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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SconnieQ

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 11:00:22 PM »
Well, it was good, but not as good as it could have been. I had to pull it at 8:00, we were starving. IT only got to 180, so never reached the sweet spot and no rest period. I was surprised after 8 hours a three pounder was not done. The chamber temps ranged from 210 to 240 and for the last hour I turned the smoker dial up to 235 and seen chamber temps up to 260. It was still very good and moist but not butter soft. Looking forward to giving it another shot next weekend with some adjustments.

Smaller pieces of meat and larger pieces of meat seem to take close to the same amount of total time when it comes to brisket, butt, etc. In other words, a smaller piece of meat is going to take more hours per pound than a larger piece of meat. A 3 pound brisket flat and an 8 pound brisket flat will probably take a similar number of hours total. It seems to have something to do with the connective tissue breaking down (the stall), turning collagen to gelatin, and that process just takes a certain amount of time, regardless of size.
Kari from Madison WI "77 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality"
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NDKoze

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2016, 10:37:13 AM »
I would strongly recommend NOT using Instacure #1 (AKA Prague Powder, AKA pink salt) directly on the meat. Instead use Morton's Tender Quick as Kari has said.

If you are brining, use 1 TSP of Instacure #1 per gallon of water in your brine. This will give the smoke ring as well. This is the method that I use when brining. When not brining, I use the Tender Quick.

BTW, I think the charcoal thing has pretty much been debunked. Even in Wood/Propane smokers, the smoke ring is not a guarantee, thus the reason I think that smoke ring has been removed from smoking competition criteria.
Gregg - Fargo, ND
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DivotMaker

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 09:54:58 PM »
Rick, you've just learned why to stay away from 3 lb briskets!  In Arkansas, we call anything 3 lbs, or less, a "steak!" lol.  Seriously, those small cuts can go 3+ hours per pound!  Weird, but they do.  Next time, go for a larger cut.

Oh, and I know Kari and Gregg have already addressed the use of "pink" salt (#1 Instacure) on the meat directly, but I can't emphasize enough to NOT do this!  I only use 1 TSP. in a gallon of brine, and that is plenty.  If you want a KILLER smoke ring, go with the Morton TenderQuick for 20-30 min, and rinse well.  It's safe, and quick!  Too much #1 curing salt can be toxic!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 08:10:21 PM by DivotMaker »
Tony from NW Arkansas
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NDKoze

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 12:39:23 AM »
Tony, you use a Tablespoon per gallon? I only use 1 Teaspoon and I still get a very nice faux smoke ring. I would say 1 Tablespoon would be the max per gallon from what I have seen.

Here is the link to the #1 cure that I use (actually purchased on Amazon):
https://hoosierhillfarm.com/Hoosier-Hill-Farm-Prague-Powder-No.1-Pink-Curing-Salt-2.5-Pound.html

Per their web page they say:
Quote
To cure correctly and within food safely guidelines, it is extremely important to use the proper amount of Prague Powder #1. As a curing agent, Prague Powder #1 serves to inhibit bacteria growth and helps to maintain meat flavor and appearance. Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat or fish. Mix cure with cold water. Too much or too little Pink Curing Salt can adversely affect health, taste, and food quality.
Gregg - Fargo, ND
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James R Brown

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 07:11:32 PM »
Rick, you've just learned why to stay away from 3 lb briskets!  In Arkansas, we call anything 3 lbs, or less, a "steak!" lol. 
That made me laugh! I'll probably forgo using any cure salts, I try to avoid nitrates as much as possible. Brisket is my favorite and will definitely use a bigger cut next time. I started another post with some questions, going to experiment with some ribs and a beef roast this weekend. Thank you everyone for the replies.
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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DivotMaker

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 08:28:23 PM »
I'll probably forgo using any cure salts, I try to avoid nitrates as much as possible.

Rick, glad I got a laugh out of that "oldie, but a goodie!" ;)   The last guy I used that gag on got a little offended!  lol.  Gotta have some fun, no matter what we do!

Now, on to your statement above....  Why?  Do you eat vegetables?  There are more nitrates in a plate of celery than you will get in a teaspoon of #1 curing salt, diluted in a gallon brine.  Nitrates are a naturally-occurring chemical and our "normal" diet is actually full of them!  Do a little research about it, as their has been a huge amount of disinformation about nitrates.  Absolutely nothing to worry about! 

Here's an interesting short video about nitrates in veggies.
Tony from NW Arkansas
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James R Brown

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 09:40:41 PM »
I didn't even know about nitrates in vegetables. I was speaking to the sodium nitrate added to cold cuts, cured ham and other meats. On a side note, I could use some guidance in another thread in this forum titled "Is this a good plan?"
Rick from Middleburg, FL
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DivotMaker

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Re: Charcoal in wood box
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 09:45:01 PM »
I didn't even know about nitrates in vegetables.

Most people don't, Chris.  Lots of media hype about nitrates, but most of it is just that...hype.  I've replied to your other topic. ;)
Tony from NW Arkansas
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