Prime Rib: How long to smoke?

[swthorpe]

I am surprised that you are experiencing combustion with the smokilicious wood as I have not.    I would avoid the hot spots and place the wood in other locations in the box.  I always use wood chunks, although sometimes I do split them in half.    You might want to try the foil boat method to see  if that eliminates the combustion issue.

[TX Gent]

Don't be scarred ... failure is the best teacher if you learn from it and experience is the essence of wisdom.

Get a digital scale and weigh your wood ... a great smoke actually takes less than you might think. 6/8oz on long smokes and 4/6oz on shorter smokes is a good starting point depending on wood type. Fruit woods generally weigh less than denser hard woods and again ... less is better than too much in the long run.

[cjdavia@gmail.com]

Thanks, everyone.

We have confirmed combustion.

I am smoking a 4.5lb pork butt right now.  2 ounces of oak, put on what I think is the cooler spot of the burner box.  20 minutes into it, the smoke coming out of the top was heavy and white.  I saw a huge puff of smoke and decided to open the door and take a look.  The wood was on fire. 

I replaced the wood with another piece, double wrapped in foil with only the top exposed.  It smelled nice and sweet for a bit and I thought I had this solved, but 20 more minutes into it, I am seeing a lot of acrid smelling smoke again.  No puffs, but a heavy, steady flow of smoke is coming out.  I opened the door again and the wood is not on fire, but it sure is smoking a ton!

I have a question -- should things smell yummy and sweet the whole time I am smoking or is it normal to have an overbearing smoke smell for part of the cook?

 I do use a digital scale and keep the wood in a controlled climate that has on average about 50-55% ambient humidity...

I am near witt's end and my family is ready to mutiny and forbid me from cooking.   This will be the 4th meal I've messed up! 

Any thoughts?
Chris

[TX Gent]

OK Chris ... I'm going to offer a few points for your consideration....

Small meat smokes like a 4.5 BB vs a bone in 12.5 BB require much different smoking techniques. Start by ramping your heat setting much lower for the first hour ... say 175d, then 200d and third hour 225d   Also try letting meat come closer to room temp before starting as a real cold BB will send the heating element full blast until it hits the set temp ... this plus other variables are lighting your wood up.

Oak is a "sweet" smoke for the most part but even oak varies greatly ... red, white, post, scrub, heart wood vs. sap wood, age, humidity content ... I think you get the point I'm making ...

Sounds like your all over the map with a high degree of frustration so I'm going to offer what I would consider the best advice I know to a first timer...

Start with a 10/12 bone in Boston Butt you don't need to do anything such as brine or adding rubs both wet or dry ... just smoke a plain BB the first time to get a base flavor. By doing this you'll gain a base for future spice/rub add on and learning what fits your taste profile.

Use the highest rack placement without touching the inside top of the box and one or two water trays on the floor of the box to add moister for the whole smoke.

Use 6-8oz wood chunks in three or four pieces and foil one or two to prolong the smoke time ... Set the top dial @200dg for the first hour and at 225dg from then on. Your smoke time till finish target of 195/200 internal temp will be 16 hours + or - and don't forget to allow a 1 hour minimum tented/foiled hold [I like 2 hours min] before slicing dicing pulling.

I actually did exactly the above two days ago with  the only change of adding a spicy brown mustard wet rub combined with a mix of pepper, salt, paprika, cayenne, garlic and onion powders.

I use my own rub as it's what works for us taste wise. Prep was to put the combo rubs on eight hours in advance and leave uncovered in the refrigerator to dry and set up for the smoke. One hour before smoke I set the BB out to start coming to room temp and in she goes. I use a combination of Post Oak and Apple wood ... we prefer sweet smoky. Once the BB reaches 175/180 out of the stall I pull it [around 12hrs] and glaze it with a combination Honey, Brown Sugar and my home made BBQ sauce. Then I double wrap the BB and back in the smoker to finish. I want to hit 195/200 internal temp before pulling it out for the two hour rest.

Follow these steps and I guarantee your family will congratulate you on a fine BBQ dinner.

I know reading this it seems like a lot of confusing steps, but if you'll follow along these lines you'll be a happy smoker.

[cjdavia@gmail.com]

Thank you, TX Gent,

You are right, I am all over the place and need to start with some success from a good baseline. 
Your plan sounds like a winner.

The wood is combusting early in the smoke so I really like your idea about ramping it up slowly, I'm going to give that a whirl next time and I might even try it without any meat to see how it goes... much less pressure that way.

Thanks for your advice.. I'm normally not so crazy and believe it or not, I am having a lot of fun with this!

Chris

[TX Gent]

BTW Chris, the reason I mention a BB for first smoke is it's an inexpensive solid 12+lb hunk of sweet protein.  This weight helps balance the temp variations over a longer smoke. A 4.5lb BB isn't very much bulk and I believe yields more temp spikes up and down. If cost is a factor ... BB's are cheap relative to most other larger cuts of meat. Hickory is the traditional wood throughout most of the BBQ world for swine ... taste vary along with spices.

Eliminate varibles by going with a proven map. There are many other posted recommendations by better smokers than myself along with ideas on how to get to where you want to be in the ...end

Good luck Chris ... I think your farther along the learning curve than you might "feel" due to a few failures toward smoke nirvana

[cjdavia@gmail.com]

Thanks again, TX Gent.  I'm going to try your recipe next time.

Saturday's 4.5 butt took 11 hours to complete at 225d.  I injected it with a solution of garlic and vinegar, rubbed it with mustard, and sprinkled some Stubbs Pork Rub on it.  I let it sit in the fridge for 24 hours before smokin' it with oak.

I had the butt probed more than an alien abduction.  The food probe was positioned in the center of the roast.  When the food probe registered 190, the other 3 probes were 15 degrees behind so I left the butt in there for an extra hour, until the other three probes got to 188.  I probably should have taken it out earlier.

The bone slid right out.  Half of the pork was perfect but half of the pork was dry/overcooked. Shredding/mixing helped a lot, but now I understand what you are saying about the smaller cuts being a little more difficult to knock out of the park.

The first part of the smoke, as you know, was a problem because of early combustion so I pulled out the burning wood and replaced it.

If I can fix the combustion problem I'll be on the right path.  I'm thinking about moving the smokilicious from the basement (it is fairly close to the dehumidifier) to the garage where it the humidity is typically higher.  I'm also going to take your advice about ramping up slowly and consider foiling inside of the firebox.

My friends from NY thought it was pretty darned good, although I know it could be much better!

Looking forward to my next smoke and thank you for the counseling! 

Chris

[barelfly]

Another tip, not sure how you place your wood chunks in the box, but when I first started smoking I would place the chunks where they were over holes on the bottom and I would get ash. I now, after trial and error, place the chunks parallel with the box in the middle, in between the holes. This has provided great results of charred chunks and a great smoked flavor. I have only used a foil boat a few times, and that is when I was using chips. I know exactly where my hot spots are, towards the back is hottest, so I always place wood as described above and then move to middle and at times will place over holes depending on what I’m smoking. In the nearly 2 years I’ve had the 3D I have not had bad flavor smoke and I turn the unit on to the temp needed and walk away. No ramp up like others use, but I have never tried that as well and perhaps it would work as well.

Don’t give up. These units provide great results. Do get a scale and measure out the chunks for each smoke.

Keep on smokin!

Hopefully this will help as well.

[cjdavia@gmail.com]

Thanks, barelfly!  I will pay more attention to the holes in the firebox, good idea!  I do have a nice digital scale and hatchet that I use to properly size the smokilicous double-chunks.  I have a feeling that the chunks are too dry because I store them close to the basement dehumidifier.

I happen to be purchasing a thermal camera soon for a home improvement project so perhaps that will give us some more information about the hot spots in the fire box. 

I want to get this to lazy-q standards so in lieu of ramping up the heat in multiple steps I am thinking about reducing the output of the element and foiling the bottom of the smokebox... but I'm going to have to tinker with it.  I'm sure we'll figure it out soon.

I really appreciate the support an insight from you all!

Chris

[Cook_in_Colorado]

Hi -

Update after smoking three prime ribs -

Prime grade, boneless, from costco was not much more expensive and worth the expense.

Wood chips (extra course = shreds) from Fruita have smoked at 165 for me.

Both of my prime grade roasts were big - 19.5lbs and 21lbs.

I set the smoker to 175 and cooked to an IT of 134.  My goal was tender meat throughout.  This seemed under done.  Next time, I'll go for 137.
After 5 hours, I turned the smoker to 185.  After another hour, I increased it to 200.  My roasts were done in 6.5 hours.  If I had more time, I would prefer to leave the smoker at 175, but the smoke died out and increasing the temp perked it up.

I let the roasts rest, covered in foil and towels, inside a cooler for 30 min.

Finishing on the grill at 500 degrees is messy, as the fat flames.  I ruined a probe, so now I finish for 6 minutes per side.  A second 30 minute rest yields about perfection.




I just smoked a prime rib - choice grade, about 11lbs.  It was boneless, from Costco.  I did what felt like a lot of research on the recipe, since like you said it's $$.  I wasn't opting for the prime grade when I felt clueless.  This was an experiment to work out kinks before I cook this for visiting family.

I tweaked DM's recipe:
Day 1 - salt well, wrap in plastic and chill 24 hours
Day 2 - unwrap, place on a drying rack and chill another 24 hours
Day 3 - marinate for 24 hours in a red wine marinade - I think 24 hours of marinating was not long enough, but I needed to cook the roast on a certain day and the timing required an abbreviated marinate

Day 4 -
*I used 2oz apple chips and 4oz cherry chips (expecting a 6 hour smoke).  The chips would not fit on the chip insert, so I placed them in the smoking box.
*I placed 4 water pans in the smoker, near the smoking box
*I allowed the roast to sit at a cold RT for 3 hours but I think this was unnecessary

The residing family hates chewy prime rib, so my goal was to cook it med-well to well.

*I set the 3D smoker temp to 200 (degrees F), with an internal temp of 130; with the probe in the fattest part of the roast.  I now know that I should have tied the roast to make a more rounded shape. 

My roast reached the 130 IT after about 2.5 hours; 3.5 hours sooner than expected.  (I also allowed a few extra hours in case it took too long to cook - which has NEVER occurred with my 3D - it is so precise and efficient, it always finishes earlier than posted smoker recipes.)  I was then beyond thankful that I did this trial smoke before trying to impress visitors. 

*I wrapped the roast in foil, then towels and placed it in a cooler.  The IT rose to 135 and then dropped to 119.5 over the course of nearly 5 hours.

*I heated my oven to 500 degrees and it took the roast 22 minutes to reach an IT of 140.  The smoke alarms went off for nearly the entire 22 minutes, so next time I'll finish on the gas grill.     

*I tented the roast and it rose to 145.3 IT over 28 minutes.  It could have rested longer, as juices were still flowing when it was carved; so next time I think I'll do the 2nd rest for 30 min or more, in the cooler as well. 

I expect that tying the roast will change a few aspects of this experiment and hopefully create a more uniform finished product.  My 10 year old - the beef connoisseur in my family - said it was the best she's beef she's had; so I find this to be successful but in need of improvement.

The roast, even at 145.3, was undercooked in the middle for the pickiest of family. 

The 1st rest was way too long and the IT dropped too much.  The outer layers were nicely cooked but perhaps overcooked for some.  I was documenting the time and IT during both rests and I think a max of 90 minutes for the 1st rest will allow for a shortened finish at 500 degrees; and I suspect a more evenly cooked final product. 

Prior to smoking a prime grade roast, I'm going to figure out a lower 3D temp for which I can achieve smoke by soaking the chips in liquid.  I'll cook the next roast at this lower temp, being able to increase the time in the smoker. 

I think I'll also smoke to an IT of 133 to 135, 1st rest - wrapped in foil then towels, in a cooler - of 60-90 min, finish at 500 degrees to an IT of 142 to 143 and a 2nd rest, tented in an opened cooler for 30 min.