Questions Re: First Brisket Smoke

[Jumanji]

I know, OMG, here is newbie Jumanji (Michael) with more questions!  But I've done my searches, so I'll trim it down to some specifics.  About to do my first brisket - ever!  That's right, a 58 yr old man who's never cooked a brisket.  Not grilled, not oven, and certainly never smoked.  Some of you might remember in my introduction that my brother and father were championship BBQ guys, so maybe I was just intimidated.  For whatever reason, here we are today.  A brisket virgin!

So I purchased a 11.7 lb brisket packer.  (Trimmed up and seasoned/rubbed, it's 10.3 lbs.)  As I was perusing them, the butcher came by and asked if she could help, and picked out what she said was a good one.  Nice and bendy, and only a small hard spot on one area of the outside.  Trimmed up pretty good and not much extra fat.  So I got a good one, I think.  She said she would stake her 17 yr reputation as a butcher on it.  And if it turns out sucky, I know where she works!

I've moistened with olive oil and covered with rub.  After that, brothers advice - four hours at 225 deg, then four hours in foil, and you're done.  Ok, so I think maybe I should use a probe since I have one on the 3D.  But in my search on forum, I read people foiling to finish, and some with butcher paper instead.  I'm intrigued by the butcher paper wrap, because it seems I could still use my probe that way.  So here are my somewhat "targeted" questions:

1.  It's 6 pm.   I can put the brisket on tonight around midnight, which would mean about six hours in the fridge with the rub.  Or wait another day which would have the rub on over 24 hours.  Does it matter?

2.  I read to budget about 1.5 hrs per pound, for cook time.  Plus another hour or two to rest.  That would be about 16-17 hr cook.  Sound right?

3.  My brothers advice was that you really want about half of the smoke with the brisket wrapped in foil, or its going to dry out.  He said this steams it, plus cooks a bit faster.  I OTOH would like to use the probe to tell me when it's done - cooked to 190 deg, and then finish up wrapped up in foil in a cooler.  I read about RG (Jason) using butcher paper instead of foil, cooking to around 160-170 deg, wrap in paper, put the probe back in, and finish cooking to 190 deg.  That is also supposed to keep things moist, especially during the "stall".  Does my wrap temp target sound right?  I also read another that said to wrap in butcher paper at 190 deg, but I think that was a mistake as by that time, its already done!  The butcher paper wrap temp is probably my biggest question.

Otherwise, I think I am pretty good to go for smoke number five on the Smokin-It 3D.  Baby backs, tenderloin, prime rib, spare ribs, and now brisket.  It's like a hobby you can eat!

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[SuperDave]

1) Don't think it will matter enough to wait.
2) That might be too conservative IMO.  If you choose to wrap per question #3, an hour per pound is closer to what I experience. Add a couple hours for rest and I think you will be fine. If you don't wrap, 1.5 hour might be right.
3) Bark lovers think foil wrapping is sacrilege.  I'm a foil wrapper because I believe it is moister and slightly quicker to be done. 

[Jumanji]

If I foil wrap, I can't use the probe - correct?  Wouldn't the foil touching the probe be an issue?  Or just pull it back a bit around the brisket?

I know the questions are very specific and exact.  I'm an engineer.  Sorry.

[LarryD]

I know, OMG, here is newbie Jumanji (Michael) with more questions!  But I've done my searches, so I'll trim it down to some specifics.  About to do my first brisket - ever!  That's right, a 58 yr old man who's never cooked a brisket.  Not grilled, not oven, and certainly never smoked.

It's all good... my first ever was only month ago and then I did another one.  You'll do fine!  It sounds like you got a good hunk of meat to work with, so you've already won half the battle.

Regardless of how this one turns out, you might look into brining your next one.  Brining will help it maintain moisture during the smoke as well as reduce the time it takes to get to completion.  For mine it only took around an hour per pound.

I did not wrap mine at all... I opened the door twice - once to put the meat in, setup the probes, etc. and once to pull it out when my probe said it was done.  Once I pull it out I wrap it well in foil, then in a towel, and put it in a cooler for a couple hours.  Both of my briskets came out incredibly moist and were melt in your mouth good.  I'm a believer that one of the biggest sins you can commit with these smokers is to open the door... it's going to let out smoke, moisture, and heat.  Have faith with patience and just let it go to completion.

On my last brisket I had to cut it in half and put it on two racks.  The smaller half I put on the top rack with the larger half on the next rack.  I took them out when the top one hit 190 which put the bottom one at 195.  Both halves were perfect.

These SI smokers do an incredible job of retaining moisture.  It's pretty standard to put a pan/pitcher of water in the bottom right next to the firebox which also releases moisture into the system.

Good luck... definitely looking forward to hearing about your experience.

[Jumanji]

Larry, I wonder if yours cooked faster because you cut it in half?  How much did the total brisket, or each half weigh?

[LarryD]

Larry, I wonder if yours cooked faster because you cut it in half?  How much did the total brisket, or each half weigh?

There is a another thread that documents my first brisket.  I want to say that my second brisket was ~16-17 lbs. after trimming.  I really need to start a log. 

[Jumanji]

I think I am going to go no-wrap (neither foil or paper) on this first one.  Just to see.  I like bark.  It won't be the last one I ever cook. 

The smoker is ready to go.  Properly foiled.  Six ounces of hickory and maple mix.  Foil pan for hot water.  Hmmm, 1 am.  Probably good time to put it on.  Start smoke at 1:20 am.

[SconnieQ]

I think I am going to go no-wrap (neither foil or paper) on this first one.  Just to see.  I like bark.  It won't be the last one I ever cook. I don't wrap. Your brother and father are using different smokers since using a electric would be considered "cheating" in the world of competition BBQ (it's too easy ). These smokers stay very moist inside. Good idea to keep the first one simple. Keeping the door closed will keep the moisture in. Then if you want to try wrapping on another brisket, you have something to compare it to. Just the act of opening the door, removing the brisket to wrap, disrupts the consistent flow of moisture and temperature. If you do decide to wrap in foil someday, there is no problem with the probe/foil. The probe measures temperature at it's tip, which should be well buried within the meat. So any part that might be in contact with the foil should not be a problem.

What about probe placement?  Probably midway on the brisket, or a bit nearer the cap (thickest) end?  Usually I would insert to get the tip in the middle of the mass.  For a brisket, that is the fat pocket between the flat and the cap isn't it?  Does that matter? You definitely want to avoid the big area of fat that is centered right between the point and the flat as you mentioned. I actually temp both the point and the flat with two separate probes, because I like to take the flat to 195, and the point to 200-205. Since you are smoking is all in one hunk, you'll want to find the happy medium. Err on the side of NOT overcooking the flat. If you only have one meat probe, then put it in the thickest part of the flat. It's practically impossible to overcook the point. 190 is not high enough in my opinion, but everyone has their opinions. If at 190 it's not jiggly and bendable, then it should go longer. It will likely be done around 1 to 1.25 hours per pound, but allow EXTRA time, and if it's done early, let it rest longer. I rest mine for 2+ hours (1 hour would be the absolute minimum). It will stay hot in a cooler for several hours. Cook by measuring your meat temperature (and by how it feels when it reaches temp). Not by time. Time should only be used for estimating when to start your smoke. Practically everyone on this forum who does their first brisket says that they had to "hurry it up" by turning the smoker temp up higher, pulling it too early, or not resting long enough, and there was much disappointment because it was not moist or tender (just not allowing enough time overall). Don't panic when your brisket goes from 40 degrees to 150 degrees in a very short time, that is normal. It will stall. Don't be tempted to turn up the smoker during the stall. The stall will last several hours.

Finally, read someplace about cutting off a corner before smoking, to see the grain of the meat.  I know you want to slice perpendicular to the grain.  Are you cutting off a corner of the flat?  Not sure I would know what I am looking at.  Any tips? People will cut a corner off the flat at the corner that is perpendicular to the grain (the grain runs kind of diagonally), so they know where to start slicing. It can be hard to see the direction of the grain after it is smoked. When you look at the lean side of the brisket when it is raw, it is easy to see the direction of the grain. I'm too cheap to waste any meat. You can stick a toothpick in somewhere, in the direction of the grain as a "marker".

[Jumanji]

Kari,

I might have messed up, because I went to bed and then thought about it, and then decided to go ahead and do the smoke.   Deleted the post that you replied to, but I appreciate the info.  I ended up putting the probe in the thicker section, about 3/4 of the length of the brisket.  Not the thickest, but certainly fatter than the flat alone.  At this point, I have the choice to pull it and reinsert the probe in the flat, or let it go.  It just got up to 225 deg.  I think I will let it ride.

I didn't cut off a corner.  I think I understand what you are saying though about grain.  I took a pic with the raw meat on the rack.  Maybe I can figure out from that.

[SconnieQ]

Kari,

I might have messed up, because I went to bed and then thought about it, and then decided to go ahead and do the smoke.   Deleted the post that you replied to, but I appreciate the info.  I ended up putting the probe in the thicker section, about 3/4 of the length of the brisket.  Not the thickest, but certainly fatter than the flat alone.  At this point, I have the choice to pull it and reinsert the probe in the flat, or let it go.  It just got up to 225 deg.  I think I will let it ride.

I didn't cut off a corner.  I think I understand what you are saying though about grain.  I took a pic with the raw meat on the rack.  Maybe I can figure out from that.

I think you are fine with the probe. I would just let it be until it reaches 195. I usually take a picture too when it is raw. It does help with figuring out the grain.

[Jumanji]

Here's some pics.  At least of what it looked like before starting.  Been smoking now for about an hour and is at 66 deg.  Started at 37 deg.  Of course none of that really matters.

From the pics, can you tell the direction of the grain?  From the second one, it looks to be running diagonally from back left to forward right.  To me.

You can also see where I put the probe.  Originally I was going to take to 190 deg.  But I left it at the program of 195 deg.  It's funny there are some conflicting things because the PID is programmed for brisket to take it to 195 deg, but the Smokin Q cookbook and tables all say 190 deg.

It's holding steady at 225-227 deg.  I think I am going to go to bed, and hope for the best.  Of course, just from the one time I checked on it, I now smell like smoke!

[SconnieQ]

You are right about the grain. So if you start slicing from the "pointyest" corner, you'll be against the grain. You can even slice from the wide flat end, and you'll still be pretty much against the grain. You should be fine just letting it go until 195, then check the feel. There are different opinions on what temp to take brisket to.

[Jumanji]

Just checked it.  Everything seems to be going well.  Rock steady at 225 deg, and either still a little bit of smoke coming out, or its just steam.  Got a little bit of grease in the pan.  Since I am about seven hours into smoke, am thinking that mini-pan of water I put next to the wood box is generating some steam.  I checked it at 6:15 am (five hours into smoke), and temp was 156 deg.  At 8:30 am (seven hours in) it was 160 deg.  IF I were to wrap, the time would be now - correct?  In that 160-170 deg range?  Is this the "stall" period?  Just to be clear though, I am going to let it crank ahead as-is.

Kari, thanks for the confirm on the grain direction.  Larry, in all seriousness, I think a log would be worthwhile.  I've taken notes on my cooks, mostly because I seem to cook much slower than what some others have reported.  Except the baby backs which cooked faster.  So who knows!

I think after this, I might buy one of those Smoke remote thermometers.  Would have been really good to have a probe in the flat, as well as one in the point end.  Would be able to confirm flat temp, if by chance the point probe was in fat and giving screwy numbers.  Kari, I think I know why you said flat for the probe now.  I guess you can cook that thinner piece to 195 deg, and the point will be maybe around 190 deg since it is fatter?

[Jumanji]

I know I am getting ahead of myself, but a question regarding slicing.  I know to slice across the grain.  But before you do that, do you separate the cap from the flat and get rid of the fat in between?  Or just slice it all together, and let the "diner" eat around the fat?  This might be one of those Chevy vs Ford questions!

Also, I am going to have some brisket left over, because it's just my wife and I.  Although in-laws have put in their orders for large portions.  I have a vacuum sealer.  For those chunks of meat that are going to be sealed and frozen for another day, I would think just thick, unsliced, fat-in chunk of meat for sealer.  Certainly no slicing, and also no fat trimming.  I would think better to leave fat on during freezing and reheat, and then trim away before serving - if that's preference.

[LarryD]

I know I am getting ahead of myself, but a question regarding slicing.  I know to slice across the grain.  But before you do that, do you separate the cap from the flat and get rid of the fat in between?  Or just slice it all together, and let the "diner" eat around the fat?  This might be one of those Chevy vs Ford questions!

I've always seen it as purely subjective and largely a regional thing.

Also, I am going to have some brisket left over, because it's just my wife and I.  Although in-laws have put in their orders for large portions.  I have a vacuum sealer.  For those chunks of meat that are going to be sealed and frozen for another day, I would think just thick, unsliced, fat-in chunk of meat for sealer.  Certainly no slicing, and also no fat trimming.  I would think better to leave fat on during freezing and reheat, and then trim away before serving - if that's preference.

Yes... just put the whole chunk in there as-is and it would come back out in great condition.  I throw my frozen chunk into a warm-hot pot of water to thaw and heat it for serving and it comes out nearly indistinguishable from when it was taken out of the smoker.