My plan for Thanksgiving turkey - feedback / comments appreciated

[jbauch357]

Hey there everybody, been a while since I've been on the forum, good to see the community is still nice and active.

Considering the success of basically everything else I've been smoking in the SI #2 (thank you to the forum specifically for this, you're help has been invaluable) my wife has trusted me with Thanksgiving turkey this year.  Below is my plan, please let me know if you have any feedback on any obvious issues or miscalculations.

Brine recipe
- 1/2c kosher salt (halved so I can brine overnight with the 8% solution bird)
- 1c brown sugar
- 1g water

My chicken rub (a variation /  combination of rubs I found on the forum)
- 1/2 Cup    paprika
- 1/4 Cup    lemon pepper
- 1/4 Cup    brown sugar
- 3 Tbsp      kosher salt
- 3 Tbsp      garlic powder
- 2 Tbsp      onion powder
- 1 Tbsp      dried oregano
- 1 Tsp        dried mustard
- 1 Tsp        dried thyme
- 1 Tsp        cayenne pepper
- 1 Tsp        cumin

The turkey is a 14lb whole frozen turkey with 8% solution.

Process / plan
- Thaw turkey (giving it 4 days in the garage, we're barely hitting a high of 40 degrees lately)
- Brine overnight (updated to reflect the lower salt solution brine)
- Rinse thoroughly, pat dry inside and out
- Rub inside cavity with olive oil and dry rub
- Stuff with mire poix (even parts celery, onion, carrot, green apple)
- Rub skin with olive oil and dry rub
- Place breast up in large foil casserole pan, but raised off the bottom just slightly with a rack topped with smoker mesh (so I can catch drippings while still allowing full air circulation around the bird)
- Put a water tray next to the fire box, probably just use water and no more spices or seasoning liquid
- Put ~2oz hickory and ~2oz cherry wood in the fire box
- Set Auber to 250 until IT of breast reaches 165 (updated from 225 per recommendation)
- Tent the turkey and place back in smoker at 120 degrees to hold until ready to carve (won't be more than an hour or two)
- When we're ready to eat I'll set the mire poix and any additional drippings/trimmings to the side for stock
- Carve and serve

Specific questions
- Is 4hrs brine about right for a turkey which is already 8% from the store?
- I've had great success at 225 with chicken so figured I'd do the same for turkey, but I've seen people cook as hot as 275, is 225 too low and a waste of time?
- Does ~6hrs sound about right for a 14lb turkey at 225?  I figure if it is going too long I can always crank up the heat at the end and speed things up a bit.
- Is there any use for the mire poix after cooking or is it a health risk due to the low temp and needs to be discarded?

Thanks in advance for any feedback, I think I've got this one figured out but it can't hurt to get some feedback. 

As usual I'll treat this as a diary and take pictures of the progress and final product.  Once all done and I know what I did right/wrong I'll post up a link to this thread in the sticky.  Being we're doing Thanksgiving a week early at our place, it'll be good reference material before everybody else does their smokes.

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[NDKoze]

I am usually alone on this as I brine all of my birds (Chicken and Turkey) overnight and haven't had one be too salty for my taste. I think for a turkey you could push the brining time closer to 8 hours as there is so much more mass than a chicken. But, I'll let others comment on that.

One thing I am pretty sure on is that I wouldn't smoke it at a temp less than 250. There would be too much of a chance to not hit the danger zone (140) within 4 hours. I would smoke it at 250 and you will probably be looking at about 5 hours give or take for a 14lb bird.

Heck, I would recommend doing a pre-Thanksgiving test and vacuum pack whatever you can't eat.

[SconnieQ]

A lot of people will tell you not to brine the pre-injected turkeys, but not me! I brine all of my pre-injected turkeys, and they have never been too salty for me or my guests. For a 14 lb turkey, I agree, you should brine at least 8 hours.

Then, remove the salt from your rub. Don't need it. That would definitely make it too salty.

I agree with Gregg, you should cook at 250 or higher. I'm not sure about the holding temp. Maybe it should be 140. I don't mind holding butt or brisket, but I've never tried to hold a turkey, so I'm not sure if it is prone to drying out. I'd avoid holding it for too long. You can let the turkey rest for quite a long time outside of the smoker, even up to an hour tented, and it will still be quite hot when you go to carve it. So maybe you won't need to hold. I know I'm never that far ahead on Thanksgiving day!

As for the mirepoix, absolutely save it, along with any left over parts of the carcass including bones, wing tips, back, tail, whatever people don't eat and is left after you've pulled all of the meat off. Combine your scraps with the mirepoix, add water, and simmer for a couple hours for some really great stock or soup.

[jbauch357]

Thanks guys, updated the temp to 250 which hopefully will also reduce the chance of it not being done in time for supper.

I just realized based on our work schedules and holiday/company timing, we don't really have a good way to brine for more than 4hrs but less than 10-12hrs.  I think I'll just stick with tossing it in brine when we get up in the morning which will give it 4-6hrs before rinsing and continuing on with the process.

Also thanks for confirming on the mire poix, I didn't figure it would be safe to eat right out of the bird but it also sounded like a waste to throw it out.  We'll certainly hold it for stock along with the rest of the trimmings and drippings that don't go into gravy.

[SuperDave]

Eating the cooked veggies out of the bird is one of my favorite parts of carving.  I also brine overnight or as long as 24 hours before smoking. 

[DivotMaker]

Good to see you again Josh!

I don't use sugar in my poultry brine, but do add some other flavors (garlic, onion, rosemary and orange juice).  Also, since it takes more than a gallon for a bird that big, I halve the salt for a injected bird (that way you can do it overnight). 

I absolutely concur with 250.  The bird should be about 4 hours.  I don't use a pan, so your time may be more due to shielding the heat from the bottom.  You also don't need a water pan for turkey.  The skin is a moisture barrier, so it doesn't help anything, and actually makes the skin even more rubbery.  The mire poix will add lots of moisture to the inside.

If you hold it in the smoker, make sure the smoker cools to below 140, and use 140 as a hold temp.  But, as has been said, an hour under foil is fine too.

One more thing...I'd reverse your wood amounts.  More cherry, less hickory.  Better on poultry, imo.  It's a little milder that way, and won't overpower some folks.

[jbauch357]

Halving the salt is so simple I never even thought of it, that'll be great and allow an overnight brine, thanks for the idea.  Realistically we'd prefer a bird that was a little dry compared to one that is too salty.

[DivotMaker]

Josh, you can also do an equilibrium brine, where time isn't a factor.  You could leave it in for 2 days and it will never be too salty!  Check out Brines 101 to learn more about brining.

[SconnieQ]

Halving the salt and giving it a longer soak is a good idea. I'm a big fan of brown sugar in brine for poultry. It's a matter of personal preference. You can add all sorts of other things to your brine. Some of the things I have added are apple juice, fresh herbs (rosemary, thyme, sage), garlic, onion, celery, fresh ginger, peppercorns, allspice berries. I haven't tried orange juice yet, but sounds really good. If I do a flavor brine, I simmer the flavor ingredients in some water for a while, let cool, then add the rest of the water. It's fun to play around with ingredients. Sometimes I do a flavor brine, and sometimes I just do salt, brown sugar and water. Sounds like you are doing a pretty flavorful rub, so I think a plain brine is fine.

[jbauch357]

OK, the results are in.  Overall it was a success for a first try, but we did learn a couple things which will lead to a much better product on the next attempt.

As usual I got excited and didn't take any pictures, which I should have, because it was a thing of beauty...

Detailed results
- Took approx 5.5hrs for the breast to reach 165, but the thighs were still sitting around 155 so I let it go until the breast was 170 and the thigh consistently checked over 160.  I figured the extended rest time would allow the thighs to ramp a few more degrees and didn't want to dry out the breast.
- Bird was done well before we were ready to eat so we tented with foil and placed back in the smoker.  Left the door open for a bit with temp set to 120, but it retained so much heat it kept at over 160 for an hour then slowly ramped down to 120 over the next couple hours.  Total rest time was about 3hrs.
- Bird presentation was perfect, the skin was a uniform brown and still quite wet.  There was at least an inch of juice in the bottom of the pan for gravy.
- Even after 3hrs resting it was still too hot to comfortably handle with bare hands, which resulted in more juice running out once carved so it should have rested at a lower temperature.
- The breast meat was good and juicy, perfectly cooked, the thigh and dark meat were also extremely juicy but might have been able to use a few more degrees to firm up a bit more.
- The skin stayed perfectly in place, even while carving, but as expected was very chewy and basically inedible.
- Bird was actually a bit too smokey for my taste.  Next time I need to remember the higher cook temperature and leave bigger chunks, as well as use less or a lighter tasting wood.
- I think the pan underneath caused the difference in temp between the top and bottom halves of the bird, next time have the drippings pan sitting on a shelf under the bird to allow more air flow.

[DivotMaker]

- I think the pan underneath caused the difference in temp between the top and bottom halves of the bird, next time have the drippings pan sitting on a shelf under the bird to allow more air flow.

Bingo.  That's why I don't put a pan under my birds.  I like the uninterrupted heat to work on that lower dark meat first, and it's done by the time the breast hits 165. 

[jbauch357]

One more thing, I never knew how to properly carve and serve a turkey so I finally looked it up this year.  I followed the process in the below link and holy smokes was it amazing.  Carving was quick and easy, got the vast majority of meat off the bird and the presentation was beautiful.  I'm done allowing family to butcher their turkeys, this is how we'll be doing it from now on as long as I have my way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=939uGzs484M

[SconnieQ]

- I think the pan underneath caused the difference in temp between the top and bottom halves of the bird, next time have the drippings pan sitting on a shelf under the bird to allow more air flow.

Bingo.  That's why I don't put a pan under my birds.  I like the uninterrupted heat to work on that lower dark meat first, and it's done by the time the breast hits 165.

Agreed. The bird sitting directly in the pan is a problem for the dark meat and breasts being done at the same time. If you want to capture the juices, put the drip pan on a rack beneath the bird, and you will find dark meat and white meat temps will be closer to done at the same time.

[SconnieQ]

I'm done allowing family to butcher their turkeys, this is how we'll be doing it from now on as long as I have my way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=939uGzs484M

Ha! for years I had my two brothers take turns carving the bird while I prepped all of the other stuff. Then I watched one of these carving videos, and I was no longer happy with a turkey that looked like a bomb went off and somehow the remains found themselves onto a platter! I politely just told them how much I "really liked carving the turkey". I can do it in a fraction of the time, and the presentation is SO much better. I find other things for them to do if they want to "help".