guys, thanks for all the feedback. Maybe that first one was an anomaly in some way because there was no un rendered fat or connective tissue. Gave samples to at least a half dozen folks and all feedback was great. Have two Boston Butts (last one was shoulder) in now and are at 178. Will keep on to at least 190 this time and report back. Have a good holiday weekend. By the way, was watching food channel on smoky foods on Best Thing I Ever Ate and one segment was a smoked turkey breast at a restaurant in Alabama. They had a #2 in the kitchen that they used for it. Cool to see one on TV.