Smokin-It User Forum!
Alternative Cooking Methods to Go With the Smokin-It Smoker => Sous Vide! => Topic started by: SconnieQ on December 19, 2015, 01:43:23 PM
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Trying out my new immersion circulator.
http://anovaculinary.com/
Another method of precision temperature, low, and REALLY slow. Most of us already have the vacuum sealer, and one or two of those cambro plastic containers, although any food safe plastic or metal pot/container will do.
Asparagus, 185 for 12 minutes. Remove and drop into cool water to hold. Add cold water to container to drop temp down to 131. Add asparagus back in to keep warm while steak cooks. Add ribeye steak. 2 hours at 131, then sear. Medium-rare pink from edge to edge, no gray overcooked ring. I made a pan sauce with shallots, mushrooms, dijon mustard, a little cream and the juices left over from the bag. It was delicious!
At the same time I added the ribeye, I added a thick slice of chuck. That needs to go for 2 to 4 days at 131, then a quick sear. It's still going. I'm going to go 4 days for this first chuck steak. It will stay a nice medium-rare, but is supposed to tenderize and break down during the long cook, and supposedly eats and tastes like prime rib. We'll see :)
BTW, I should mention, because I'm sure many of you are wondering about the 140 degree magic number for food safety, and how long the chuck steak is cooking at 131. Here are the more specific food safety guidelines. You need to be at 140 for at least 12 minutes. OR, 130 for at least 112 minutes. So as long as the temp gets to 130, you can cook as long as you want. The USDA doesn't seem to publicize the whole 130 business, because it really doesn't apply to 99.9% of people. The Anova boasts accuracy to within one-tenth of a degree, and from what I could figure from testing with my Maverick, it is spot on. (Poor Maverick only goes in whole degrees :-[ )
No picture of Ribeye after cooking. Too hungry and forgot. Going to try some eggs next. Some interesting things can happen with eggs.
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Very nice!
I'm thinking to try this pate, (http://www.notesfromhomeplates.com/country-style-pate-cooked-sous-vide/) looks interesting.
I've done it before, bain-marie, wrapped in bacon, and used Quatre épices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatre_%C3%A9pices) instead of allspice - no flour either. I made two loafs, they were gone in a blink of an eye!
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Thanks Kari! I've been interested in this, but haven't taken the plunge. I'll be following you to learn more about sous vide!
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Very nice!
I'm thinking to try this pate, (http://www.notesfromhomeplates.com/country-style-pate-cooked-sous-vide/) looks interesting.
I've done it before, bain-marie, wrapped in bacon, and used Quatre épices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatre_%C3%A9pices) instead of allspice - no flour either. I made two loafs, they were gone in a blink of an eye!
Yay! I was hoping to hear from other experienced "sous-viders". Love the term "Charcutepalooza". Sounds like you have some experience with pate. I'm wondering if it should be left in for 24-48 hours, or if that would hurt it. Seems like a pretty thick hunk to just go overnight. It shouldn't overcook if set at the right temp. Also, have you tried adding Prague Powder #1 (pink salt) to your pates to keep them nice and pink? I'll have to see if I can find some caul fat. Probably have to have a butcher shop order it for me. In Brooklyn, I'm sure you have no problem finding it.
I also found the idea of cooking beans in mason jars intriguing. (Nice to be able to cook a smaller quantity of beans this way too.) Sounds like they come out creamy with skins in-tact. Have you tried?
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I bought my Anova for $149 (for the wifi version) a couple weeks ago. They were $50 off through December 16th. Sadly, I see on their website they are back up to $179/bluetooth, $199/wifi. They will probably be on sale again.
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I'll have to see if I can find some caul fat.
you don't really need caul fat, i think bacon is better... just like a fatty :)
here's a vid of Julia Child, almost all pate are made like that... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44RIR2q8khI
If you google "country pate" i'm sure you find a bunch of recipes.
One very important thing, not to be missed, is to put a weight on the loaf 'til next day - when you take it from you pan/terrine the top will be the bottom of the pate, gotta be flat.
On sous vide i believe 24hr won't be too much, generally you can not overcook something. In the oven, bain marie, at 375, it take about 3 hrs, or til the IT of the loaf is ~160.
Beans in a mason jar ? :)
When i was a kid my grandmother cooked ALL soups and beans in clay pots, beans too. I remember it took a whole day or more but those were the beast tastings meals ever!
I have a Romertopf, (http://homecooking.about.com/od/appliancecookery/a/claycookerprep.htm) mostly for roasts and chicken, they come out very moist and juicy. (they get ugly over time but seem to cook better)
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Beans in a mason jar ? :)
You've probably seen this if you have the Anova, but the canning jar cooking method for things with liquid that can't vacuum seal sounds interesting...
https://anovaculinary.com/5-tips-for-precision-cooking-in-canning-jars/
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Wow, wow wow wow wow.
What? did I say wow? I have to say I was somewhat skeptical about a thick slab of chuck resembling prime rib after sous vide and sear. But wow...it was so tender and flavorful, I might even say it was better than prime rib. Perfectly medium-rare pink from edge to edge, and all of the fat that runs through the chuck had become soft and succulent. Melt-in-your-mouth!! It kind of reminded me of that rich, fatty outer ring of prime rib, that is the best part.
What I did:
Lightly salt, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder, and vacuum seal. Sous vide for 4 days at 131 degrees. Remove from bag and dry meat with paper towels. (Use juices in bag for a sauce if desired.) Lightly coat meat with oil. Sprinkle meat with more salt and pepper. Quick sear on each side. I seared on my Wolf indoor charbroiler, but there are many ways to sear: hot grill, very hot broiler, heat oven to 500-550 (hottest possible), or a good ol blow torch (a sous vide favorite). Use the highest temp/method possible, so searing takes as little time as possible.
I also made asparagus, no sous vide on that. Olive oil, salt and pepper, and onto the grill just before the meat went on. Also delicious, but secondary to the meat revelation.
Packers won, so all around it's been a pretty good day.
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That looks awesome! May have to get one of those machines.....
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Kari, the chuck looks fantastic, but 4 days??? You are MUCH more patient than I am! Not sure about this sous vide thing if it takes 4 days to cook a steak! :o
Edit 2/2/16: I'm sold! I just put a chuck roast in the Anova, at 131, for 4 days!! Should have seen the looks I got from wife & son when I told them I was starting Saturday's dinner! LOL! ;D
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Kari, the chuck looks fantastic, but 4 days??? You are MUCH more patient than I am! Not sure about this sous vide thing if it takes 4 days to cook a steak! :o
2 to 4 days for a slab of chuck to come out like prime rib. Takes a long time to tenderize at medium-rare temp. It is SO worth it though! So delicious! As good or better than prime rib IMO. And the price difference between chuck and prime rib (or any steak) is huge. I'm going to try 3 days next time. ;D Chuck is an extreme example of about the longest time you would sous vide something. For tender cuts, like any actual steak cut, it is 1 hour at 129, or 2-4 hours at 131. Chicken breast would be 1 to 1-1/2 hours, beans maybe 6 hours, eggs about 45 minutes, etc. So you really don't need any more patience than you do with smoking. I enjoy cooking things that take all day (or more).
It's almost impossible to overcook anything, so you can leave it in practically indefinitely. So the timing of your meal is very flexible. And there is no carry-over cooking, so you just set it to the exact temp you want your food. You also don't really need to rest. You can see in my pictures, absolutely no juice ran out when I sliced the steak, and there was relatively little juice in the bag when finished cooking. It all stayed in the meat! The temperature doesn't get to the point where the meat contracts and squeezes the moisture out.
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That's more encouraging, Kari! I'll be following!
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I think you would love it Tony. And any of the other Auber nerds out there who like precision control. ;D Another really amazing tool in your arsenal for making the most of your ingredients (and wallet). I have found already just for reheating, it can't be beat. I can reheat my medium-rare slab-o-chuck leftovers for however long (won't overcook), and it is just as pink, and medium-rare, and juicy as the first time I ate it. And no monitoring of a simmering pot of water, or crock-pot limited in temperature control.
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I'm very interested in this, Kari. I just haven't had the time to do the research I like. You've given me incentive to start! :D
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The Anova units work really well-I have two of them, one wifi and one bluetooth. Not really sure that the wifi is worth the extra $20 apart from the "gee whiz" factor to impress guests. I suspect that they will go on sale again after Christmas; two months ago they had $50 off the wifi units($149 vs $199) and a few weeks ago had $50 off the bluetooth units ($129 vs $179)
It is a well made unit, all stainless or high tech plastic, is simple to use and works as advertised.
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I've been reading-up on the Anova...looks very intriguing! Certainly not smoked meat, but I can see the benefit of having this in one's arsenal!
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It's a great way to reheat Q, even straight out of the freezer.
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I'll chime in here! I bought an Anova Precision Cooker when they first came out. As a matter of fact, a lot of the Kickstarter supporters of it were left hanging and I was able to get mine before many that pre-paid! That company has a few issues but the product works well. I have the bluetooth version as the wi-fi came later. I hardly (never actually) even use the bluetooth or phone app like I thought I would.
Here is a thread from my old stomping grounds that you can read to see my very first cook using my Anova. Sorry for directing y'all there but it's just easier than making a new post ;)
Sous Vide (http://forum.bigsteelkeg.com/index.php?topic=15288.0)
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Pulled the trigger on the Anova Precision Cooker WiFi model! Really looking forward to trying this out! I look forward to combining the SI methods with sous vide, and exploring new horizons!
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Pulled the trigger on the Anova Precision Cooker WiFi model! Really looking forward to trying this out! I look forward to combining the SI methods with sous vide, and exploring new horizons!
It's a good tool for sure. I need to use mine more. I've made excellent salmon with it as well as soft boiled eggs. You'll enjoy it!
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Looking forward to trying it out!
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Congrats Tony! I've been using mine constantly since I bought it. More than I ever thought I would. I'm overjoyed with it. The quality and ease-of-use is excellent.
The soft boiled eggs are great. For extra large eggs, 147 for 1 hour is a good starting point. That will be at the lower end. The whites will be barely set (some might still be loose, but white and barely cooked), and the yolk still runny. Crack open just like you would a raw egg and gently drop over your plate or english muffin. They come out looking like a perfect poached egg. I made some yesterday (should have taken a picture). If you like them a little more cooked, then adjust time and temp slightly. There are lots of youtube videos and time/temp charts for eggs. Salmon comes out super moist and flavorful. The Anova really excels at proteins. My favorite so far is still the first thing I cooked, which is the low-price slab of chuck roast, transformed into a super flavorful, melt-in-your-mouth, prime-rib like delight (in 4 days mind you, some recipes say 2-3 days). I have since cooked numerous rib-eye steaks too. For a 1-1/2 to 2 inch medium-rare steak, 129 for one hour (or two, doesn't seem to matter, I usually go two), then a quick high-temp sear (don't overdo the sear, just need a minute or two per side to get a good crust). Even pink from edge to edge. I will be cooking a rib-eye in the Anova today in fact.
I came up with a little trick for getting a wet marinade into the vacuum sealed bag (since I don't have a chamber vac), if you want to sous vide in a wet marinade. Well, I didn't discover it, I'm sure someone else has thought of it before me (probably on this forum). I freeze my marinade into an ice cube tray, or some other sort of small container. Pop out the frozen marinade and quickly seal in the bag with the meat. Or I suppose you could put a little marinade directly into your bag, freeze it right in the bag, then add meat and seal. You can drop it right into the Anova. Or if you want to pre-marinate (cook later), thaw the cube quickly by dropping the bag into warm water, then into the fridge. Or let it thaw slowly in the fridge. A lot of salt in the marinade will inhibit freezing, so as long as it's not overly salty (and your freezer is very cold), it should freeze enough. Involves a little planning ahead, but aren't we all used to that?
Of course, you can always use a ziplock bag and the water displacement method for wet things, but it's hard to get ALL of the air out. It works quite well, except you might need to weigh it down with something to keep it submerged.
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Thanks, Kari! I am really excited about adding a new dimension to my cooking! So much to learn, and so many avenues for experimentation on how to incorporate this with SI smoked meat! I may have to start a new recipe category for sous vide!! :D
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I forgot to mention chicken breast. I'm not usually a big fan. They are kind of bland, and often overcooked and dry. Cook chicken breasts sous vide, and it's a whole different animal. So moist. A perfect opportunity to cook in a marinade. A couple other cuts of meat that benefit greatly from sous vide are pork tenderloin and beef tenderloin. Like chicken breast, not the most flavorful cuts (so lean), and easy to overcook, but when cooked properly they are elevated to a whole new level.
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"This has been a paid endorsement from SconnieQ® for the Anova© Precision Cooker™"
;D ;D ;D :o
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Ha ha! I guess I am overly excited about this product.
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Ha ha! I guess I am overly excited about this product.
Not meant to make you feel bad! I love your enthusiasm!!
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Not meant to make you feel bad! I love your enthusiasm!!
;D ;D Even more excited about the SI though. Had mine about a year, and get giddy just thinking about the next smoke!
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Not meant to make you feel bad! I love your enthusiasm!!
;D ;D Even more excited about the SI though. Had mine about a year, and get giddy just thinking about the next smoke!
Me too! But I have to tell you, I'm giddy about trying the Anova! Can't wait til it gets here Wednesday! I'm already thinking of ways to combine it with the SI! I think a great thing to try would be pastrami! Smoke it for several hours, really low (like 150), then finish in the SV! No steaming necessary! The possibilities are limitless!
I'll probably be throwing a chuck roast in it Wednesday night for the weekend, first!
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I think a great thing to try would be pastrami! Smoke it for several hours, really low (like 150), then finish in the SV! No steaming necessary! The possibilities are limitless!
I'll probably be throwing a chuck roast in it Wednesday night for the weekend, first!
Just did another chuck roast/steak. About 1-1/2 inches thick. I tried 3 days at 131 instead of 4 days this time. It really was just as good as the 4 day one, except I would say if you like to eat the fat, then that was a little more melty at 4 days.
Pastrami is a GREAT idea! I did a pastrami a few years ago on my WSM, and it was quite bad. Not the fault of the smoker. I made a few mistakes. Mistake #1: bought a "pre-corned" beef. I found one that did not have the pickling spices added to the corning process, but it still did not have the correct taste. Mistake #2: too lazy to steam. Figured it would be tender/juicy enough for sandwiches without steaming. Wrong. Mistake #3: too much pepper on the outside (easy fix, rinsed some off, but sliced quite a bit before I realized this).
I have been wanting to revisit pastrami, this time on the SI. This has inspired me to try it again. So I'm looking forward to your results, and time/temp for the sous vide part. I'm going to try and get beef navel next time if I can, and of course cure it myself. Seems like sous vide would be a perfect substitute for the steaming step, most likely far superior to standard steaming.
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Got my Anova today! Yay! I haven't been this excited about a new cooking device since I got my first SI! Looks to be well-made, and had no problem synching with the WiFi. Can't wait to try this bad boy out this weekend!
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That really looks incredible . Wow
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Ok Kari, you got me curious, so right after I pulled tonight's Rib Eyes, out of the bath, I just trew a 3# boneless chuck roast in there. Set temps to 131f and planning to have it for Thursday's dinner. Just salt, pepper, garlic powder and a bit of olive oil. We'll see how it ends up.
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Ok Kari, you got me curious, so right after I pulled tonight's Rib Eyes, out of the bath, I just trew a 3# boneless chuck roast in there. Set temps to 131f and planning to have it for Thursday's dinner. Just salt, pepper, garlic powder and a bit of olive oil. We'll see how it ends up.
Sounds about right to me. When done give it a quick sear at a high temp in a cast iron pan, grill or with a torch. And post pictures!
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Here are some pics of my second slab of sous vide chuck. This time served with a grilled caesar salad (head of romaine sliced in half lengthwise, then charred on flat size), grilled naan, and au jus.
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That looks great, Kari! I'm thawing a chuck roast now....should go in the bath tomorrow for Saturday! Did chicken breasts at 150 yesterday...not near as impressed as the steak. I think I need to go 160-165 next time. The texture was weird. Not that it was bad, it just didn't "feel" right.
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Tony, I agree with you on the chicken. Maybe just what we are used to but certainly a very different texture. Perhaps it would work fine in chicken salad?
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Not sure, Roger. Like I said, it wasn't bad, but I just guess I've had chicken more "done" my whole life, and am used to the texture at 165. I'll report how it goes! Killer on beef, though!
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I can totally understand the texture issue with sous vide chicken breasts. Your brain and previous experience is directing you to expect a fairly firm product. Moist and tender is where sous vide chicken breasts excel. I have used mine in chicken salad as Roger suggested, and they are great there. I enjoy rare meats, and raw sushi, so that soft texture thing to me is desirable, and something not weird to me. But sometimes the texture of sous vide poultry requires a re-programming of the mind and taste-buds. Sometimes the brain interprets something with that texture to be undercooked, dangerous, and risky to eat, even though it is cooked. Thus, it is not an enjoyable experience.
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Might be right, Kari; just not sure I want to re-program my brain for poultry, after as many trips around the sun as I've made eating poultry more firm! ;) ;D I'm sure 165 chicken will be just as moist, just have the texture I'm used to!
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In regards to chicken, I sv it to 140 and then grill or pan fry it the rest of the way to 165. Works for me! Gives it much needed color and firms it up.
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Good idea, Jason! I'll have to try that.
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Ok Kari, you got me curious, so right after I pulled tonight's Rib Eyes, out of the bath, I just trew a 3# boneless chuck roast in there. Set temps to 131f and planning to have it for Thursday's dinner. Just salt, pepper, garlic powder and a bit of olive oil. We'll see how it ends up.
Sounds about right to me. When done give it a quick sear at a high temp in a cast iron pan, grill or with a torch. And post pictures!
Tonight was day 4 ;D... Decided to go with Tony's technique and cranked up the oven on roast convection setting at 500f... first pic is right out of the pouch with all the juice collected, second pic is out of the oven, ( 5min timed!) 3rd pic is after slicing it and 4th is actually my plate.. being a week night, nothing extravagant... broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, au Jus and some creamed horseradish...holy sweet Jesus... my butcher is going to wonder what the heck I'm doing with all those chuck roast.... can hang side by side with a prime rib and can keep the head up... Thank you Kari, the 4 days in the water bath really worth it... here's the pics...
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Now I'm even more excited, Bob! I have another 46 hours to go, on my little Chuckie in the bath! I used my Santa Maria steak seasoning, and in at 131. I am SO looking forward to dinner Saturday! :P
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Seriously Tony, this is the broken dude prime rib! I think I need to get at least one more Anova... :-*
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So I'm gathering, Bob! If this is all it's made out to be, I'm going to cold smoke one for 3-4 hours, then SV for at least 3 days!
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Looks pretty fancy to me with the veg, au jus and horseradish sides. I'd put it up against prime rib any day. Chuck is very flavorful.
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So I'm gathering, Bob! If this is all it's made out to be, I'm going to cold smoke one for 3-4 hours, then SV for at least 3 days!
Tony, I think you are onto something with the pastrami idea. I'm working on a plan for that one, unless you get to it first.
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I have a brisket flat in the brine that I was planning to turn into Montreal Smoked meat t5his week end.... I may beat you both :P
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You may beat me, Kari! I'd like to at least get one in the brine this weekend. A brisket flat is probably my first choice, but I know lots of folks use other beef cuts. Suggestions, anyone?
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You may beat me, Kari! I'd like to at least get one in the brine this weekend. A brisket flat is probably my first choice, but I know lots of folks use other beef cuts. Suggestions, anyone?
I will probably go with a brisket flat for the pastrami. Unless I can get my hands on some beef navel. Have to make a phone call for that, but can probably get it if I put a little effort in. I think some people even use some sort of cut from the round, but I would think that would be way too lean for pastrami.
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so 3 to 4 hrs at 130/140f in the smokers , after that sous vide for let's say 3 days... you would still steaming it for finish?
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I wouldn't think so, Bob. I think the SV finish will take care of that...no moisture loss. I plan on 140; seems I remember Brian (Pork Belly) saying that was a good temp for pastrami.
Oops...The temp Brian uses on pastrami is 150. That's where I'll do the 7.6 lb brisket I just put in the corned beef brine!
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so 3 to 4 hrs at 130/140f in the smokers for 2 to 3 hrs, after that sous vide for let's say 3 days... you would still steaming it for finish?
My initial research for pastrami shows to smoke at 150 for 5-10 hours. Then sous vide at 140-143.6 for 72 hours, or 149 for 48 hours. I would lean toward the lower temp for 72 hours. That is my preliminary findings. No steaming necessary.
Edit: After thinking about it, I like your 130/140 smoke for 3-4 hours. (5-10 hours at 150 might be too smoky, considering that the sous vide process will probably enhance, and penetrate the smoke.) Then I also like the idea of sous vide at 140 for 3 days.
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Even the leftover nuked at work today was awesome :P