Smokin-It User Forum!
Problems and Troubleshooting => Having a problem? Look Here First, or Post Your Question! => Topic started by: TheSneakyZebra on February 07, 2014, 11:09:27 AM
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so I just made the purchase last night and I am just now seeing people have multiple temp issues. I know there are swings and I can handle some variation but it looks like people are having a hard time even getting the smoker part the low 200's. I'm kinda freaking out now. Can someone give me some honest I or on what I can expect for temp control or temp issues? Thanks.
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I have never experienced a temperature problem. I have heard of a couple of people who needed to adjust their dial. These units are very simple & reliable. They only have a rheostat & an element installed in a very durable & well insulated stainless box. Get a good dual thermometer & follow a proven method for your 1st cook from this site. There is absolutely nothing to worry about! This isn't junk like the MES or other box store smokers.
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I responded to your post on SMF, but will here too just to give my thoughts.
I just ordered my #3 last night as well.
I was in the same boat as you worrying about getting to max temp and you may see several posts on this forum expressing my concern. But the more I read through all the posts and responses to my concerns, they have pretty much been alleviated.
I know there are some having trouble with this. But there are many others that aren't.
I am going to try it sans Auber PID and see how it goes. However, this is easily fixed by buying an Auber PID controller that will give much more precision as well as pretty much take control away from the analog thermostat.
If you want to get temps higher than 250, you can bypass the controller and get temps in the low 300s from what I have read. There are plenty of threads in the Auber Tips & Tricks forum group.
We'll be in this thing together Zebra :)
I got an email this morning shortly after 10:00AM CST that my order has already been shipped.
Now for the anxious waiting.
Koze
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After spending $600 I don't think I should have to spend another $200 for a PID controller. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't get one of those units that don't work right.
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I hear you on that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed too.
On the other hand, the more I read about the Auber, I am tempted to get one down the road even if I don't have any problems.
I know you don't want to fork out another $200. But even at that you are into a Smokin-It for way less than you would be if you went with a similar Smoken-Tex or a Cook Shack and way better than those disasters called MES.
I wouldn't get too worried until after you have tested the new one out.
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That's what I'm thinking.
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I have been using a #2 for about a year now, smoking something nearly every weekend. I have not had problems getting the unit up to the desired temp, which is usually set at 225F. I do see temp swings of +/-20F on most smokes, but the variation averages out in the long run to my desired temp. I have also noticed that as time goes by during the smoke, the temp variations come down.
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I think it is mainly the folks with the #3 that are seeing the unable to get to temp issues.
I think it has something to do with the larger cooking space.
I am still withholding judgment though because there are several with #3's where it works just fine.
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Zebra - - - Breathe!! If temp issues were common, like with some other brands, there wouldn't be this many happy owners posting good things here every day! If you happen to be one of the very few who have had temp issues, contact Steve and I am positive you'll be treated well! If, after using it with the analog controller, you are unhappy with the temp swings, go the PID route. A loaded-up model 3, even with an Auber added, is still a much better value than the cheapest Cookshack. While their products are great, they're not as capable or accurate as an SI with an Auber.
So, until your units arrive, and you do that first smoke, take a few deep breaths and don't freak out! 8)
Sounds like Gregg got Zen on this! ;D
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I am cool as a cucumber baby! 8)
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Good to hear, Gregg! You're soon to be even cooler, standing next to your #3! 8)
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Yeah, ditto on all of the above. Just breathe a bit and wait till you get that awesome smoker. I am seriously wishing I bought the #3 but my #2 has been rock solid. It does have the temp swings but as others have mentioned it works out in the end. I am going to add a PID eventually but not completely sold right now on the Auber (but it is fantastic unit, I just want more, I am super techy only reason why). Adding a water pan can help with temp swings a bit as it acts as a heatsink/buffer with the water vapors. Remember, don't think of the price of shipping with the unit, that is just an unavoidable effect of purchasing a unit this heavy and well packaged.
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I definitely concur, Ben! The water pan is a great heat sink, and present on every one of my smokes! Really helps tame the swings.
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Has anyone tried a pan of wet playground sand as a heat sink?
If I can find the thread (other sites) I will link it.
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Never thought of that Dave. I could see that working out well for this application. Let us know if you find it. But it does sound pretty simple overall to do.
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When I used to use a Brinkman water smoker, I would fill the water pan with sand. It seemed to regulate the heat better. I've thought of using 2 of the mini loaf pans (that I use for water pans); one with juice, and one on the other side with sand. Hmm...that may be a near-future project!
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I did find some information. Seems the use of a heat sink to stabilize temperatures is used in charcoal, propane and electric smokers. The use of water is great and assists in the smoke adhering to meat and helps maintain moisture. However, not necessary on large cuts with a lot of fat. Also, it stops absorbing heat at 212 degrees (elevation above sea level dependent) and evaporates. I suppose as you lose water to evaporation, you lose mass and your sink shrinks.
Dry playground sand is reportedly much better. It will continue to absorb heat, all the heat you give it. And it does not evaporate. It can be an aid in crisping since it is a dry heat. And if additional moisture is needed, just add water to the sand. If dry, you can cover the pan of sand with foil to keep grease out of it.
Bottom line: each method has its own adherents. And they like the results they get. And they politely disagree as to which method is better.
There are also reports of employing lava rock, ceramic tile, and other means of absorbing heat and releasing slowly.
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Great info, Dave! I've not tried the sand in my SI, though I used to use it. I'm up for a trial!
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I kind of like the idea of liquid on one side and sand on the other.
Seems like the best of both worlds.
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I should have also stated that on the electric smokers, it was evident that these methods were being used on both analog and digital smokers. No mention though of the absorbed heats effect on the cycling of the heating element.
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I posted this on another forum, but I thought I would also post it here.
I have the #2 and watched the temperature swings in the box at first. Now I just set it and forget it and watch the IT of what I am cooking. Yes it swings, but It averages out at my set temperature and my smokes come out as expected. If you are not close to averaging, then I would suspect a problem, or might need to pull the knob and move it around a notch. To me the air temp might vary slightly around the meat, but It will still be cooking and smoking. If I am looking for a 195 finish and the smoker swings from 215 to 235 while I am getting there it does not bother me.
Going to the trouble and expense of a PID controller can and will hold the area at the sensor closer to the the set temperate, but I can not see how that will affect the outcome differently than several hours of normal on/off swings much. I am not trying to do a high speed exact chemical process here where a batch will spoil if it gets 5 too hot or will solidify if it gets 5 too cool. I guess I have already dealt with too many Proportional, Integral, Derivative controllers in critical process situations in my life to be concerned with it in my slow smoker.
I saw someone post earlier that they were not familiar with the term PID Controller. Here is a web site with a very simple basic explanation of how it would affect your smoker..
http://www.ospid.com/blog/what-is-pid-control/
Just my opinion.
Like my old H2 Kawasaki, if it ain't smoken, its broken.
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Well put Colt911. The smokers work quite well as designed. What matters is the final product. The FAQ section on this site, and on a competitors site, states clearly there will be temperature swings. A reasonable person will think about this before making a purchase. Either they can live with it or not. If not, don't buy an analog smoker.
Or get the analog smoker and being fully aware that there are temperature swings,purchase a PID like the Auber and modify the smoker to get the accuracy they want or need. Perfectly acceptable option.
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Hey guys. I think some of the last posts have forgotten that the OP understands that there will be swings and wasn't concerned about the swings. It was the inability to get up to or come close to averaging a temp that was his concern.
That being said, I agree that he and I need to give the smoker a chance because most people do not experience this issue.
I think most of us who have researched analog electric smokers understand that there will be swings.
Gregg still remaining Zen 8)
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It never hurts to remind folks of the swings. There are those who will visit the site, see only the positive and then get concerned after the purchase when they don't see the accuracy they expected.
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Well-put, Colt! The swings can be disconcerting to those who don't know they're going to happen with an analog. Dave has tested another popular brand, similar to a SI, but comes with a digital controller (you'll have to guess which brand). Even the high $$ digital smoker experienced temp swings! Just because they cost 2-3 times what a SI does, doesn't mean you're paying for PID accuracy on board.
My model 1 typically holds +/- 10 degrees, and my smokes are predictable as can be. Times are very consistent, even with the analog.
I know the original post was about not getting up to temp, but as Gregg mentioned, this is rare, and the company stands behind their product. Glad to see Gregg's still Zen! 8)
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Tell me about it. I packed the little remote away and stopped thinking about the difference and worrying about it. The food is done when it is done. As for
The 3 that my brother has he has cheched his temp ans found the swings ok and only uses a remote for the it. He has learned to stop agonizing over the difference which in the long run has no effect on the outcome.
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Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry, but I was out of town so I did not see all of them until now. I am just going to roll with it and see how it goes. I ordered this to assist in catering so I was a little more concerned than a backyard BBQer. I will see how things go and if I need to go the PID route or not. Thanks for the input yall!
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I think I will still monitor the cooking chamber just to make sure that I the swings are up and down around my set temp so I know if I need to adjust the dial settings or not. If I am going up and down and roughly averaging what my dial is set at I will be very happy.
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hey if you want to see a graphic of my last smoke, I have a pic posted showing the temps from my Tappecue, pretty cool to see, you can draw a line right through the chamber temps and get the average temp that was cooking at
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That's a cool graph, Ben. Definitely a nice feature of the Tappecue!
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thought it would be cool to illustrate a non-PID graph of the temp swings that people keep asking about. but you can see that it easily was getting about 250-260 during that time.
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My #2 if set at 225 will hit maybe 245-250 as the peak.
If I set it at 250 it cuts out at then but the heat continues until about 280, drifts back down to 240ish and it kicks back on.
The first real smoke I did was a chicken @250, and I had a water pan on the shelf. I could not get it up to 250, and the light was going off.
So I feel it was getting to temp, but my probe was having a hard time picking it up. I was a little worried. The chicken came out great though and all was fine.
Been happy with my new toy.