Smokin-It User Forum!

Upgrades and Suggestions! => Upgrades => Topic started by: DivotMaker on January 17, 2014, 08:39:28 PM

Title: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 17, 2014, 08:39:28 PM: December 2015 Update!
We finally did it! The new Model 2D and Model 3D are now available! These smokers have an integrated PID controller, designed by Auber Instruments, so it works the same as a standalone Auber PID. Check them out here:

Product Release: Smokin-It Model 2D and 3D (http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=4319.0)

Boy, am I excited!

I got my hands on a new prototype for testing - the Electronic Smokin-It Model 2! I'm grateful to Steve and Ben for giving me the opportunity to test this bad boy out!

Let me give a couple of "disclaimers" before I tell you all about it:

1. This is the FIRST prototype of the new electronic controller; there will most likely be some issues to address, but that's what this is for! We want to work-out all the "bugs" before releasing this unit.

2. I'm not a Professional Product Tester, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ;)

3. Feedback/suggestions are welcome! That's another reason for this posting!

4. I just got hold of it night before last, so the pictures/videos aren't the best quality, but did the best I could with very limited time. There will be MANY more reviews to come!

5. There is a "known" issue regarding accuracy of the electronic controller. This is being addressed, and I'll be evaluating it extensively.

Okay, now that the lawyers are happy, ;) , we can get down to business!

I unwrapped, cleaned and mounted it on the cart night before last. Last night, I was able to season the unit. Some very interesting things were discovered in those few hours, some of which I'll get into later.

Initial impressions:

1. I have a model 1, so I was definitely impressed with the size of the model 2!

2. It is a standard model 2, in every way, except the top and controller. As you can see below, the controller is housed in a newly-designed black plastic housing. It appears to be a very heavy-duty plastic, and looks weather-proof. The buttons are "touch-sensitive" buttons, meaning you don't have to "press" on them, just gently touch. Took a minute to figure that out, but really liked it once I did.

3. I like the layout of the controls. They're simple and elegant.

4. One minor issue: When the smoker is mounted on a cart, the display is unreadable when standing directly in front of the smoker (unless you're over 6' tall). I had to step to the side a bit to read it. When the smoker is on its own wheels on the floor, it's fine.

Seasoning:

I threw a couple dowels in, and placed the Maverick on a shelf. I also added 2 1/2 bricks to the shelf to act as a "heat sink" (simulated meat...lol). I can now add hickory-smoked bricks to my repertoire! I turned the smoker on (there's an "On" button), and the display sprang to life! It has a pleasant blue backlight (which you'll see in the videos). When I touched "Time," the top "time" line started to flash. It displays in hours:minutes, so I just used the up/down keys to set 4 hours. Pressing "Set" saved the setting. I set the temp to 250 (max) the same way. Easy so far!

I was amazed at the difference in the heating elements between the model 1 and 2! The 700 watt element in the 2 is a hoss! I noticed, almost immediately, that the temp gauge on the controller was not keeping pace with the Maverick's box temp. The box temp climbed rapidly, but the controller lagged 20+ degrees behind during the run-up. See the chart, below, to see the differences.

Once the controller sensed the temp at 246 (box temp 277), it cycled the controller into maintenance mode. During the heating process, the indicator light on the controller was solid red. When it reached temp, it turned to a yellowish-green. As the box temp began to drop, the controller remained steady for some time. Eventually, I began to hear the controller start to "click" as it turned the element on and off. The light never did turn red again, as it seems the controller switches to this maintenance mode when it gets up to temp.

During the preheat to 250, I experienced something that has been written about on the site several times, but I never experienced with my model 1: The "Smoke Belch!" I've attached video of this. The first time it happened, I was standing over the smoker, looking at the controller display. Scared me so much I almost dropped my drink! Smoke spewed from every orofice in that sucker for 2-3 seconds! Out the top, around the door, and even out the bottom! Ben and I discussed this last night, and may have it figured-out - more on that later, after I test our theory.

There were no big "temp swings," like with the analog controller. The most difference I saw, and only briefly, was 9-11 degrees. Most of the time, the controller and Maverick varied by only 1-6 degrees. Not bad. It doesn't seem to be PID-accurate yet, but I know this is being addressed.

All in all, first impressions are good! I look forward to smoking some good Q, and giving you feedback in "real world" situations with food! It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it! ;D

Electronic Smokin-It Model 2
“Seasoning”
1/16/14, 48-degrees ambient temp
Elapsed Time: Controller Temp: Actual Box Temp: Notes
:10 84 104
:12 91 117 Smoke begins
:14 96 124
:17 104 133
:18 107 136
:22 140 174
:25 149 183
:29 170 203
:31 177 210
:32 185 216 Big smoke belch!
:34 201 232
:35 206 237
:40 244 277
:42 246 273 Controller in maintenance mode
:44 248 271
:45 251 270
:51 251 255
:55 248 252
:56 248 250
:58 246 246
:60 246 248
:62 246 250
1:05 252 261
1:06 253 262
1:11 251 259
1:18 246 252
1:20 246 253
1:41 253 262

I stopped charting at this point. The rest of the seasoning was similar to the results after :55 minutes. The temp would go up and down, based on the controller cycling.

Videos:
The belch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rpawls3wke2ft4v/VIDEO0012.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rpawls3wke2ft4v/VIDEO0012.mp4)
Temps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uspdmeuueyn9hv0/VIDEO0014.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uspdmeuueyn9hv0/VIDEO0014.mp4)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vz3ogg0ta9tkbq/VIDEO0015.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vz3ogg0ta9tkbq/VIDEO0015.mp4)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gkakkholpwiym3a/VIDEO0016.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gkakkholpwiym3a/VIDEO0016.mp4)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd2hy4i4ycvie5g/ESI%2018.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd2hy4i4ycvie5g/ESI%2018.mp4)

Lots more to come - Stay Tuned!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on January 17, 2014, 09:21:01 PM: That is more like it.

I will be sad forever that I did get my SI unit several months before they had an integrated PID on the unit but such is life. I like what I have perfectly and reality before this all gets squared up for an SI3 will be some time. NOTE I am a licensed PE and live two hours from Steve should they ever want me to get their PID tweaked in an afternoon pro bono if you will.

That said it will be a real great model. I would seem to think having a more vibrant display would be important .... Something with bright red, or blue, or green LED so you could see at night for those long smokes.

Also, if Steve is going this far... Take one more step and let this controller have one IT probe, two or thee meat probes, and let the unit have a wi if option to something that is most reliable ( not sure if that is iGrill or something else ) but having all this it would be great if there was a way o then walk around my house with the temps in my hand

All in all congrats to Steve for stepping it up.

Note they should apply my shelf mod to all carts going forward ( simple hole and then users can buy a hitch pin ).

God speed.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 17, 2014, 09:27:42 PM: Great comments, Steve! Rest assured, Ben is watching, so your ideas are heard!

The internal meat probes are a good idea, but I think they are trying to weigh failure points with price points. Once you start getting too complex, you have more points of failure, and will increase the cost way too much. The great thing about Smokin-It, and why I bought one, is value for the dollar. Great features, but not so many that they're not a better value than the competition.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on January 17, 2014, 09:35:50 PM: Ok ok... Price... You think someone as cheap I mean frugal... As me would remember that.

Maybe... Considering I'm a Tinker... Just make the controller so one could easily mod-squad these things if they want.

Man drilling through stainless with my work tools at work and only using my 19.2V rechargeable was an adventure. Now ever, in some odd way I enjoy my smoker more.

Will anxiously await reports.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: benjammn on January 17, 2014, 10:18:13 PM: Great news and love the ideas. Very close to the control panel I had drawn up for the system I am planning. I would love to be on the tester crew for AZ since the one thing that I see about this panel is the fact that AZ is a bitch on plastic panels like that. UV kills everything here and would be interesting to see how it would hold up overall. This is obviously a simpler version of the PID that is being used now. I like the simple nature of it. Tony pm me if you will.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: benjammn on January 17, 2014, 10:36:39 PM: Based on the vids you have posted, there might be a difference in the thermostats. With the controller being inclosed on top of the smoker, it might be having a harder time balancing the external temps to the Maveric's. The Maveric is outside the box and the thermo dynamic response is different. Also it depends on the thermo probe type that is being used for this unit. It might have a lower tolerance level than the Maveric, not sure. You might need to try out some different levels of the thermocouple to get a more accurate reading. There are a lot of things that might be affecting the built in thermocouple to be that far off.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 17, 2014, 10:40:25 PM: Quote from: benjammn on January 17, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Based on the vids you have posted, there might be a difference in the thermostats. With the controller being inclosed on top of the smoker, it might be having a harder time balancing the external temps to the Maveric's. The Maveric is outside the box and the thermo dynamic response is different. Also it depends on the thermo probe type that is being used for this unit. It might have a lower tolerance level than the Maveric, not sure. You might need to try out some different levels of the thermocouple to get a more accurate reading. There are a lot of things that might be affecting the built in thermocouple to be that far off.

Good analysis, Ben. Before the unit was shipped, Steve moved the thermocouple around, and got the same results. I plan on doing my own tinkering with that, too. It may also be the actual thermocouple, itself, that's the culprit. There are many different kinds, and it may be that this is not the correct one. Time will tell.... Thanks for the input!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 17, 2014, 10:50:20 PM: A very good intro and series of videos. While the difference between the onboard SI controller reading and the Maverick are wide initially, once the SI hits the mark, it appears pretty solid for a pro to-type and the difference between it and the Maverick are tolerable, again for a prototype.

I have to agree with Steve on the IT issue. But I also see the importance of the price point and acknowledge that secondary thermometers like the Maverick are not a big investment and can be very satisfactory for IT monitoring. Sort of a mixed bag comment.

Regarding the temp variations: Did you calibrate the Maverick before testing? I ask only because at the 40 minute mark, the SI unit was steadily climbing while the Maverick was steadily falling and taking a big 15 degree dump between the 45 and 51 minute mark with the SI units holding steady at 251. From that point on, I would have no trouble trusting the SI unit. The temp swings are not that severe.

Keep on testing. I am confident that with time, the tolerance can be tightened up.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 17, 2014, 11:01:27 PM: Thanks for the comments, Dave! I have calibrated my Maverick with ice water and boiling water, and it reads within 1 degree (lucky, I think). This process of creating a new board is definitely more complicated than most would think, in this computer-driven age, and I know changes will be made to make this unit as accurate as possible. Hang with us, and I appreciate your thoughts!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: swthorpe on January 18, 2014, 07:57:08 AM: Onward and upward...congratulations to SI for new product development! As for the smoke belch, that happened to me as well on the original version of the #2, and I suspect others have experienced it as well. I will be curious to see if it continues...I only experienced the major belch a couple of times and now it just gives a few puff-type belches.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 18, 2014, 08:40:48 AM: Thanks, Steve. I'm going to do a little testing on the "belch." We have a theory, and I want to see if it's right before I post on it.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 18, 2014, 02:52:01 PM: Here's a couple of better pics in the daylight. The LCD display is a little dim, but readable. I think that's due to the thickness of the weather cover on it.

Trapped with work this weekend, so I won't have any more testing until Monday, but stay tuned!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 18, 2014, 04:56:01 PM: The temperature sensor was relocated during testing in Ohio. I've moved the sensor back to the original factory location, and will run the seasoning test again. During the original test, the box temp was reading higher than the controller sensor was reading, which leads me to believe the sensor was too far from the element. (I guess it was "out of it's element"). We'll see if this makes the controller read higher, bringing it closer to the actual box temp!.

Notice, also, that this seems to be a temp probe, not a thermocouple. My #1 has a thermocouple mounted to the little shelf between the 2 temp sensor locations shown in the picture.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: benjammn on January 19, 2014, 01:33:41 AM: Interesting, kinda bet that makes a difference.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Wik on January 19, 2014, 07:15:01 AM: I was thinking about checking temps on 3 different racks bottom, middle with Ribs via Auber, and top during my next cook. Thought maybe having the Auber probe closer to the bottom would make sense as well, but wasn't sure how that would affect the upper temps since heat rises. I'll report back my results in case anyone is curious, or maybe the results will be of interest to your future testing.
Wik
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 08:53:14 AM: Quote from: Wik on January 19, 2014, 07:15:01 AM
I was thinking about checking temps on 3 different racks bottom, middle with Ribs via Auber, and top during my next cook. Thought maybe having the Auber probe closer to the bottom would make sense as well, but wasn't sure how that would affect the upper temps since heat rises. I'll report back my results in case anyone is curious, or maybe the results will be of interest to your future testing.
Wik

That would be good info, Wik. I want to delve into where the hot/cold zones seem to be in the box. Sensor placement seems to be a bit elusive at the moment...
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 10:33:06 AM: After moving the sensor back to the factory location, I put the Maverick sensor as close as possible to the smoker sensor, and ran a short test last night. The temps were more even until the smoker got into the 100+ range, then seemed to vary more, but not as bad as when the sensor was higher.

I plan to do a more detailed test on this, and will provide some better documentation.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Wik on January 19, 2014, 10:58:42 AM: Results from initial heat-up was the on middle rack 2 inches from meat showed lower than bottom and top rack, but seem to level out when it reached maintenance temp. Then High probe was a bit higher and the low probe bounced around a bit as the Auber attempted to keep meat rack probe within a degree or so. Since it is fairly cold where I'm at (~15F), I'm assuming if I had the Auber mounted lower it would have an easier time maintaining temp (probably have to Auto-Tune it again), with temps at higher racks slightly hotter. But since I have it dialed in with the Auber I may just leave it. It was interesting to see the range of temps which still seems pretty darn good and seem to decrease in range the as it finds its sweet spot / meat warms up a bit.

Summary
Bottom Rack Meat Rack Top Rack
82.1 73 77.9
116.4 92 106.9
131.2 110 126.4
170.6 146 188.5
191.3 177 202.1
200.4 200 219.7
208.3 205 225.2
216.2 219 238.4 (~Auber started to trim power)
218.7 225 241.4 (Meat Rack hit temp)
220.2 224 237.1
226.7 225 239.6
226.9 226 234.8

Lower temps is jumping around a bit as Auber adjusts to keep middle probe where I want it. Not sure if this info really helps you or not. Good luck and awesome to see more options coming down the pipeline for this product.

After things settled down I'm seeing Mix / Max in this range. Granted I haven't did a ice bath to calibrate anything, these are from stock Auber for middle and Thermoworks TW8060 for the lower and upper racks. Maybe I have meat probe a bit too close to the meat, who knows...
223-240 224-226 223-240
Varies Stable Pretty Stable usually around 233

Eyeballing this it seems like I'm getting <2-3 degree difference between bottom and top at the moment. The bottom seems to have the most swings. That said I'd think the sensor closer to the bottom would provide better control, just that you might need to compensate for a couple degrees as you move higher in the racks. Good luck, I'm just glad to see a fairly stable temp throughout the smoker. Next time I'll try to calibrate sensors with ice bath and have the probe on meat rack a bit further from the meat.

Wik
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 11:07:16 AM: That's really good data, Wik! I know that if the probe next to the meat is very close, you do get cooling off the meat (until it warms up), and it appears that happened a bit here.

The meat rack sure is dead-on once it hits the maintenance cycle, and looks like top and bottoms probes are coming in line. Thanks Chad!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 02:58:27 PM: I'm doing a "stepped" temp test now. I have 2 1/2 bricks in the smoker, as the original test, and moved the sensor back to the factory location. I placed the Maverick sensor under a shelf, very close to the unit sensor location. I also added a pan of water next to the smoke box. No wood.

When set to 120, the temps stabilized very close. Once it stabilized, the controller was reading 122, and the Maverick 120 and holding. I just bumped it up to 140.

Update 140 band: Controller 140, Mav 145. After about 10 minutes, the Mav has dropped to 133, and the controller is reading 138. Gonna let it ride awhile longer at 140.

Upate 140 band: Set at 140, controller is cycling, and now displaying 144, with 154 on the Maverick. Hmmm. Now 156 on Maverick, 145 on controller. Not sure why it's not shutting down the heat.

Update 140 band: OK, the 140 setting is definitely problematic. Controller reads 150, Maverick 158. I've bumped the temp, again, to 160. We'll see how that band does.

Update 160 band: This held close for awhile, but once the controller starting cycling, it climbed to 168/171. It has just dropped back to 166/169.

It's now swung the opposite way: 167/163. The box temp is lower than the controller reading.

Now 160/156. Bumped temp to 180.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 04:28:42 PM: The test is now in the 180 setting band. It has climbed to 185/187 (controller/Maverick), and is steady. Appears that 5-7 degrees off is the average. I going to 200 soon.

It's dropped to 174/169 when set at 180, but is now climbing back up. Box temp got to 7 over, and 11 under at 180. Going to 200 now.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 05:02:59 PM: Testing the 200 setting. Interesting that they're equalized at 203/203! The 200 band seems to be pretty accurate, so far!

The 200 band has dropped to 185/194. How low will it go???
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 05:25:01 PM: The 200 test bottomed out at 185/194, and topped at 199/205. I just set 225. Let's see how she does at my "go to" Q temp! This one's the key to success!!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 05:42:19 PM: 225 setting: It held 225/225 for a bit, and now the controller is cycling. Reading 228/232, 229/234. Let's see where it tops out.

Update: Topped at 234, and is on the way down. 9-degree swing above the setting. The electronic controller should definitely hold tighter than that.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 05:50:17 PM: Stepped temp test results: It seems the on-board controller does not keep fast enough pace with what's actually happening in the box. The Maverick is much more responsive. This variance could be caused by a) the controller board, b) the temperature sensor, or c) all of the above.

I'll be putting it to the test with meat next weekend, but the brick tests have shown definite inaccuracies that need to be addressed. I bet not many "first prototype" electronic boards have been a success right off the bat. It'll be a fun journey to see where this ends!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 19, 2014, 07:34:45 PM: Tony - I like the way the testing is going. The results are interesting, to say the least. You are being very thorough and it will pay off in the long run and all will benefit from your efforts. Dave
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 19, 2014, 08:30:26 PM: Thanks, Dave! I'll try to chart these out some more; today was just kind of a play-by-play as I was watching it.

I'll get a load of meat in there soon!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 20, 2014, 02:29:56 PM: Looking forward to the "proof is in the pudding (meat)" results.

Testing my own smoker (different make) showed a rather large range of temp differences until everything settled down, sort of reaching equilibrium, if you will. Then the difference between the onboard digital controller and the auxiliary probe were not too far apart. The aux unit registered approx 5 deg higher than the on board unit, frustrating. Such is life. And I did this check just to see what I would get. Boxed up the aux unit and back to storage it goes.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 20, 2014, 04:59:23 PM: I know it's proven that temp can be held within 1-2 degrees; the Auber proves that, so the technology is there. The question will be if a board for the SI can be made reasonably accurate, too, with price point in consideration. Time will tell, and I know it's being looked at.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 20, 2014, 05:13:11 PM: You are correct, of course.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: es1025 on January 20, 2014, 07:52:59 PM: Has Steve or Ben thought about a retrofit/bypass for the existing smokin-it smokers? Or is the retro-fit/bypass an auber?

It looks real nice.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 20, 2014, 08:04:26 PM: I'm sure they have, Ed, but we have to get it right and in production first. Wouldn't be a hard retrofit.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 22, 2014, 08:03:24 PM: Testing has stalled until this weekend. :( Were having an unusually cold snap for the next day or two (I know, Wik, nothing like you, though;), and I'm on the downhill side of a nasty head cold. Haven't felt like standing in the cold wind the last couple of days!

I plan a smoke on Saturday to test under "operational" conditions! Any suggestions? I'm considering a brisket, or a couple of chickens...not sure. What do you guys think would be a "fitting" first smoke for a brand-spanking-new model??
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on January 22, 2014, 08:35:38 PM: My 6 year old son votes for pork butt.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 22, 2014, 08:41:36 PM: I like the way that boy thinks, Steve! I did pulled pork last week...may need to go a different direction this time. But let him know, it's most likely what's for dinner next weekend! ;D
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 22, 2014, 09:02:57 PM: Baby backs on an upper rack and split whole chicken (or game hens) on the lower rack.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 22, 2014, 09:30:16 PM: Oooh... ribs and chicken? That's one to consider, Dave! Bet the rib drippings on the chicken would be pretty good!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on January 22, 2014, 10:41:01 PM: Mmmmmm, drippin's. Upper basting the lower. Waste not want not!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on January 28, 2014, 07:46:58 PM: The first "real-world" operational test of the electronic took place Saturday - actually smoking meat!! 3 racks of baby back ribs (10.5 lbs). The results were perfect Smokin-It ribs, even though I documented some interesting temperature swings and characteristics! Check out the cook here:

http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1388.0

More testing to come!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 03:13:35 AM: I am glad to hear that they are working on a digital controller. I wish I had a timeframe for when they may be ready for orders. I am ready to pull the trigger on a #3, but the thought of having a digital verses analog controller makes me want to wait. I am not in a huge hurry to purchase as it is freezing cold here in ND and I most likely won't be smoking until the weather gets a little nicer.

I know this is prototype and a lot of testing still probably has to go on. But is there any rough estimate at all as to when these digital models could be ready for orders? If it is within 6 months, I would probably wait. But if we are looking at more like a year, I'm not sure I want to wait that long.

Thanks for any rough estimate you could provide (Don't worry I wouldn't hold ya to it :) ).
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 10:24:11 AM: We should have a better idea by the end of the month. Several changes in the works, so no release estimate available yet. We'll definitely keep everyone updated on the progress as we know!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on February 03, 2014, 02:35:52 PM: There are a lot of folks plugging along cranking out great chow with the smokers as is. And there is the option for the Auber, which being separate from the unit allows one to modify the smoker and switch between analog and digital. Sort of the best of both worlds. For the present. But I can understand wanting to know the what and when and how much.

It will be interesting to see the final product and the pricing. But accuracy of the temperature control is paramount, and getting there may take some time.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 02:49:07 PM: I agree Sarge, and for all I know, I may be very happy with just the Analog controller.

My thought is that if this comes in as less than a $100 upcharge, I would probably rather have it. If it is more than $100, I will probably just go with the analog model and see if I need the Auber or not afterward.

But, I would just like to have the option I guess.

I am going to be keenly following the results of the testing. Regardless of the outcome, it will be interesting.

Koze
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 04:05:47 PM: Dave is absolutely right - lots of good Q going on with the analog! I attempted to smoke a 7.43 lb brined Boston butt yesterday, and the results were disastrous. The new electronic controller didn't like the cold snowy weather here yesterday, and temps were swinging wildly. Even set at 250, the box temp was barely over 200, and briefly maxed-out at around 230. I wish I had been using my analog #1 in those conditions. I'd say I was averaging around 205. Since I didn't want to take 20 hours to cook a <8 lb butt, I pulled it at 170 and sliced. Good, but not pulled pork.

Until we work something out on the controller, I probably won't be smoking any more meat with the present controller. More testing will continue as changes are made.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 04:34:00 PM: Quote from: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 04:05:47 PM
Dave is absolutely right - lots of good Q going on with the analog! I attempted to smoke a 7.43 lb brined Boston butt yesterday, and the results were disastrous. The new electronic controller didn't like the cold snowy weather here yesterday, and temps were swinging wildly. Even set at 250, the box temp was barely over 200, and briefly maxed-out at around 230. I wish I had been using my analog #1 in those conditions. I'd say I was averaging around 205. Since I didn't want to take 20 hours to cook a <8 lb butt, I pulled it at 170 and sliced. Good, but not pulled pork.

Until we work something out on the controller, I probably won't be smoking any more meat with the present controller. More testing will continue as changes are made.

Do you think the #1 would have faired better? From reading the other threads regarding smokers not coming to max temperature, I question whether it would have faired any better although you know your particular #1's capabilities and maybe it would have been fine.

Truth be told, the problem with not being able to get to max temp is a much bigger deal to me than the temp swings. I think I could live with the 40 degree swings if the average was still at what I had set the smoker dial to. But from many of the threads here, it seems that the analog smoker as well as the prototype (appears to have the same issue) have a hard time getting to the max 250 degree temperature.

I am fine with the max temp of 250 too (especially since most smokes would be at 225 or lower) as long as we could successfully average 250 with the swings.

I know it is early in the prototype testing. So, hopefully they'll be able to fix this issue.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 05:36:18 PM: Quote from: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 04:34:00 PM
Do you think the #1 would have faired better? From reading the other threads regarding smokers not coming to max temperature, I question whether it would have faired any better although you know your particular #1's capabilities and maybe it would have been fine.

Absolutely. You can read back through my cooks posted on here, and every one (with the exception of the last 2) have all been with my #1. I've smoked down to 9-degrees without a hitch. I've documented the consistent temps in my #1 (+/- 10 degrees), and have never had an issue.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 05:57:47 PM: Quote from: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 05:36:18 PM
Quote from: NDKoze on February 03, 2014, 04:34:00 PM
Do you think the #1 would have faired better? From reading the other threads regarding smokers not coming to max temperature, I question whether it would have faired any better although you know your particular #1's capabilities and maybe it would have been fine.

Absolutely. You can read back through my cooks posted on here, and every one (with the exception of the last 2) have all been with my #1. I've smoked down to 9-degrees without a hitch. I've documented the consistent temps in my #1 (+/- 10 degrees), and have never had an issue.

I believe you. But, your experience differs from others. So, it seems like it is a crapshoot whether you get one that will be able to get to temps or not. That being said, my guess is that there are probably more that don't have any problems than do. I wonder whether this is more prevalent in the #3 units with the larger cooking space? It would make sense that the temps are easier to reach and maintain in a smaller unit even though it has a corresponding smaller element.

I hope I am not coming off negative and seen as bashing the Smoken-Its. Because that is definitely not my intention. Like I have said previously, I am pretty much sold on getting a #3. Just waiting to see if it is worth it to wait for the digital controller or not.

I'm rambling. I guess I just need to be patient and wait for more results and then determine what to do.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Walt on February 03, 2014, 06:43:25 PM: I have a #2 & have operated it as low as 18 deg f with absolutely no problems. I think, on occasion from the factory, the dial needs to be calibrated. Its a simple fix documented on the "Mods" section. However, it appears that is a very small percentage of units. I dont use a PID & so far haven't found it necessary. The largest benefit for the PID (to me) would be the programable steps so you could put the butt in @ 225 & tell it to reduce to 140 upon an IT of 200. You come home, no matter when the butt is finished, to a perfectly cooked & toasty warm dinner. I dont think the prototype will have this feature. I think I may be convincing myself to buy a PID. ;D ;D
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 03, 2014, 07:56:46 PM: ND - If you spend enough time going through old posts here, I believe you will see many, many more positive comments than negative. Is it a "fluke" that my #1 is really pretty accurate? I don't know. I've theorized, in posts, that the internal volume of each model may have an impact on the temp swings; just not sure, though. I do know that there's a pretty vast, and growing, group of satisfied owners. I think some, who have not been satisfied, were maybe expecting PID-type accuracy out of an analog controller. Every electric smoker out there has temp swings. The hope is that the swings will be consistent enough to "average out" over a cook, and give consistent results. If you want +/- 1-2 degree accuracy, the PID is the way to go. The bottom line with BBQ is that it's really not an exact science, and doesn't demand the accuracy some think it does. But, again, even the inaccuracies need to be consistent.

Walt - thanks for the comments about your satisfaction with your "stock" #2! You're not alone! And, no, the current prototype doesn't have a "hold" feature, but no telling what's in the works for the rework! Stay tuned!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: rickne on February 04, 2014, 03:31:09 PM: Holy smokes! (Pun intended). I disappear for a month and miss the big news.

This is a game changer for Steve. And a long time coming, in my opinion. This make this smoker competitive with anybody in the market and depending on his cost model, he could become a dominant player. To do that, he will have to expand his distribution model.

1. The IT probe is a "nice to have" but I wouldn't shy away from it if it didn't have it. Personally, I would prefer it without the built in IT probe. Sometimes simple is better and you have to realize that everybody in the market isn't looking for the bleeding edge technology options. I'm just as happy using my Maverick. In fact, I till use my maverick when cooking with the Auber PID so that I can have the remote in the house.

2. Display. Somebody mentioned bright, colors, clarity, etc. All are "nice to have" but more important than all of that is durability and resistance to weather. Everything from AZ sun and UV rays to North Dakota brittle cold cracking plastic, to the occasional rain. You have to remember, some of these do sit outside. I don't keep mine out there but you know some do and some will. You have to protect against the elements.

3. Retro fitting would be a great option. I'd sell my auber and retro fit with this in a heart beat.

OF course, price is everything. IMO, if Steve can do this with a $100 upgrade, it's a giant value.

Been colder than a bucket of penguin poop here and have my last hockey tournaments this weekend. Hopefully I will be firing up the #3 in a few weeks.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 04, 2014, 03:37:52 PM: In case anybody missed the change I made to the first post in the thread, please check it out. I wanted everyone to know that the new board is quite a way out, and production is even farther. No timeline, as of yet, so folks don't need to factor-in whether to wait for the electronic version, or go with the current models. Back to the drawing board, so to speak! Thanks!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 04, 2014, 04:24:58 PM: Great points from Rick! Durability is huge and I think I would rather have an external probe that I can easily replace with a new and better probe when it goes bad.

Thanks for the update DivotMaker on the prototype status!

Do you have any idea whether this new controller will be able to be retrofitted to the analog smokers that many people already own?

If so, that makes the decision to buy now rather than wait much more appealing. Then you would have the option of going with the new controller or springing for the Auber.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Walt on February 04, 2014, 05:03:53 PM: WRT probes, I would recommend using the K type instead of some proprietary probe. I hear a lot of complaints about these proprietary probes with durability & expense. K type are extremely durable, abundant & reasonably priced since they are industry standard for many scientific vocations & professional chefs. They also come in a multitude of configurations.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: NDKoze on February 04, 2014, 05:08:59 PM: That's a new term for me. What is a "K Type" probe?
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Walt on February 04, 2014, 06:03:35 PM: As per wikipedia, it is the most common type of thermocouple for use from -330 to +2460 deg f.

Many Thermoworks thermometers use these so their accuracy is outstanding & the durability is as good as anything out there. Because they are so common, the price is also very good. Look @ the Thermoworks website for an example. It seems this would be the obvious choice if designing a system requiring a thermocouple.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 04, 2014, 06:37:30 PM: OK, a few questions to deal with here...I'll do my best to work through them!

Walt - good tip on the probes. I believe Rick was talking about meat probes, so I'm not sure if your tip is for SI or Rick. But yes, a high-quality internal box temp probe will be part of the work on a new controller. As of now, the controller probably won't have an internal meat probe - too many points of failure. Most folks prefer their Mavericks, Tapacues, or other thermometers.

Rick & Koze - retrofit will most likely be an option. The controller hooks up with the same wiring as the analog controller, so retrofit should be easy. As you can see from my pics, the controller housing just screws down to the top of the box.

Koze - Yes, buy the current version. It will serve you well as-is, and later you'll have the option of the Auber, and eventually an electronic controller. Use it, love it, now; upgrade later - if you choose. Many owners are very happy with their standard analog controllers. The analogs have the advantage of low cost of replacement, and very good cold-weather reliability. I can personally attest to that. Yes, there are temp swings, but they are consistent and predictable.

Rick - as for the display: Work needs to be done on the "readability," not just making it flashy-looking. The current LCD display is very hard to read. You need good weather-proofing, but the display window needs to be more clear. I'm sure the actual display inside is fine - you just can't read it unless you get close, and at the right angle. I can set my Maverick on it, and read it through the kitchen window, if the remote's in another room.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: mike.bryant on August 25, 2014, 05:19:45 PM: It's been a while since the last posting. Is there any new information available?
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on August 25, 2014, 08:44:32 PM: Quote from: mike.bryant on August 25, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
It's been a while since the last posting. Is there any new information available?

Still a "work in progress," Mike. Rest assured, Steve is working hard to get another controller, and progress is being made. This time, we want to be sure it's accurate and reliable, so it's still going to be awhile before the next test model comes out. I will definitely keep you all posted!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: damnfingers on February 03, 2015, 03:04:30 PM: Is there anything new on this?
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: BedouinBob on February 03, 2015, 04:58:26 PM: Tony, not sure but based on the pictures, I don't think you should be running the smoke in the house. :o Nice looking enhancement! :)
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on February 03, 2015, 07:53:49 PM: Thanks Bob! ;) Nothing to report right now, but work progresses!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: Bigjo on March 08, 2015, 05:27:05 PM: Is the digital controller something that can be swaped with the analog controller. I'm buying a 3 as soon as they get them in next week. It would be nice to get the temp swings under control without spending $215 to do it. From everything I've read the temp swings are only thing keeping the SI smokers from being absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: old sarge on March 08, 2015, 09:12:56 PM: Digital provides 2 things: tighter temperature and peace of mind. But a 5 hour smoke will still be a 5 hour smoke, swings and all. Getting digital right, so the customer need only set temperature and cook time, or temperature and internal temperature requires a lot of programming is not easy nor is it inexpensive. One of the way to keep costs down is the way users of the Auber set theirs up. Integrating such a system into the smoker has been done with great success by many users here. Having it incorporated as part of the design of the smoker and done at the factory during production will ramp up the cost of the smoker. Maybe significantly.
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: SuperDave on March 08, 2015, 10:46:16 PM: The top secret was leaked 14 months ago so anyone holding their breathe might have passed out by now. LOL!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on March 09, 2015, 08:39:02 PM: Quote from: SuperDave on March 08, 2015, 10:46:16 PM
The top secret was leaked 14 months ago so anyone holding their breathe might have passed out by now. LOL!

Come up for air, Dave! :o Getting it "right" sometimes takes longer than you would expect - obstacles around every corner! We learned a LOT from that initial prototype, and it's still progressing. The main thing learned was not to rush a product until it's right!
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: TmanEater on March 09, 2015, 11:30:03 PM: Integrated HeaterMeter. That's all I'm saying! :D
Title: Re: "Top Secret" Leaked!! New "Prototype" Electronic Smokin-It Model 2!
Post by: DivotMaker on March 12, 2015, 06:19:53 PM: Quote from: TmanEater on March 09, 2015, 11:30:03 PM
Integrated HeaterMeter. That's all I'm saying! :D

Where were you a year ago?? ...Just sayin'! ;)