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Auber PID Controllers => Auber PID Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: Wik on December 31, 2013, 01:05:27 AM

Title: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Wik on December 31, 2013, 01:05:27 AM
Figured maybe working as a group we can aggregate a list of Auto Tuned values for the various SI models and also see what environmental variables have any impact.  Granted I'm pretty satisfied with the results I've seen so far with the Auber PID, but I'm hoping to learn more from the results.  I'm sure probe placement, outside temp, LBS of meat, Auto-Tuned at Start or near End, and By-Passed or not probably all come into play.  If anyone has results to add, I'll try and maintain the chart every so often.

Part of my curiosity is due to very stable temps early during my 15 LB turkey then towards the end it seemed to overshoot by more then I was used to.  The day was warmer then I had smoked in the past so maybe that had something to do with it.  I should have did another Auto-Tune at the tail end to see, but I didn't due to laziness.

Results so far:
ContributorPIDSI ModelAir TempMeat/LbsStart/EndByPassedNotes
Valid Range0-6000-9000-300
Preset70600150
Wik7571589#31F2 RibsStartNoWater Pan
Wik7571589#3-17F7.5lb Prime RibStartNoWater Pan - same results as before
Wik1120125#3-17F7.5lb Prime RibMid 60 ITNo'' lid open to cool to 160 before AT
Wik6173992#3-20F(2) 6.5 ButtsMid 150 ITNoWater Pan
Polish Q89909113#333F???
Polish Q4670896#330F??YesRange Vent Added
rajones1981487185#280FPan O'Sand?No


My Research: (comment if you have opinions / theories as I'm just learning)

P Setting
I Setting
D Setting

Video that helped cement in some concepts for on these variables for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SefKQb9y_B4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SefKQb9y_B4)

Armed with this I think I'll start manual tuning P = 150 and I = 0 and P = 0.  See if it cycles and if it reaches set temp or not.  I think we are reaching set point fairly quickly so my assumption is the higher value the more stable it will be, just won't reach set temp as quickly (slower ramp as we get closer).  Of course if P is too high I doubt we would even reach the set point.  There are so many variables here that even if I AT on one condition I doubt it is optimal for a different situation.

FYI - I tried I=0 and D=0 with P=300, P=200, P= 150, P=100, P=80, P=50, P=25 and it appeared that all but 50 and 25 couldn't even reach the set point.  So my theory is P=70 is probably not that bad, then it uses I to inch up to set point and D to help with overshooting.  Still trying to hone in on things, but maybe the amount of meat mass has a bigger impact then I first thought.  I'll probably continue with P=50 and messing around a bit more.

Please reply if interested with your Auto-Tune values and I'll edit this chart periodically.
         
Cheers,
Wik

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on December 31, 2013, 04:30:28 PM
P 46
I 708
D 96

That's with 30 degF ambient.

I had to redo mine because I since have installed an exhaust hood which is slightly pulling air through the device at a rate higher than if there were no hood.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 31, 2013, 07:40:52 PM
Hey Wik, great idea!  This could be very helpful.  I hope to be contributing to the discussion in the near future.  Right now, I'm the bystander soaking it all in!  Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on December 31, 2013, 08:14:13 PM
I'm now bypassed as of today Wik. !!!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 31, 2013, 08:20:36 PM
I'm now bypassed as of today Wik. !!!

Probably still itching from the insulation! lol!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: rajones19 on January 24, 2014, 10:54:00 AM
I auto-tuned last summer; no idea what temps were, but I'm sure it was warm.

SI #2 - Can't remember if I had bypassed at that point, but I think not. Set for 225 degrees

P - 81
I - 487
D - 185

Load was a foil drip pan full of beach sand in the center of smoker - about the same size as the SI drip pan.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: bluecatpride on February 19, 2014, 01:15:20 PM
From reading these post, it seems the auto turning should be done with a load in the cooker.  The manual does not state this information.  Just trying to figure out if I need to auto tune empty or with meat.  Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on February 19, 2014, 07:08:32 PM
Yes.... With load in.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on February 19, 2014, 07:18:11 PM
The mistake I made (which wasn't clear in the instructions, either) is not having a realistic cooking program set.  I "simulated" a meat load with 3 bricks and a full water pan, but couldn't tell you what was set in the program steps when I started!  Next time I smoke a pork butt or brisket, I'll run the autotune under "actual" cooking conditions!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: bluecatpride on February 19, 2014, 11:23:16 PM
Thanks for the information. Doing it at the next cooking sounds like the way to go. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Three Sons BBQ on February 20, 2014, 06:59:54 PM
Auto tune for the next smoke of any meat you do and record... Then you are set....
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on March 22, 2014, 09:01:46 PM
I ran a test of the new Auber permanent probe today in the #2, with an autotune.  I put 3 bricks in the smoker, and a water pan full of hot water.  The Auber was set as follows:

C01   140   E01   t   t01   0.5
C02   225   E02   t   t02   10.0

I wanted to step the temp to 225, as I normally do.  I put the Maverick box temp probe through the top blow hole, at approximately the same level as the fixed probe (3" from the top). 

The autotune process was long, and the temps differed about 10 degrees.  Once the autotune completed, and was settled-in at 225, the Auber and Maverick were mostly the same, or within 1-degree of each other.  I'm satisfied that the fixed probe is accurate.

My autotune results, with the fixed temp probe, are:

P   62
I    902
D   112

Update:  This autotune seems to be dead-on!  When I did my epic 11 1/2 hour smoke on a 4 lb corned beef (unbelievable, I know, but I lived it), the temps held really tight the entire time.  Almost every time I went out and checked, it was sitting at 225.  I confirmed this with the Maverick, too.  I never saw it vary more than 1-degree.  Pretty happy with that!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on April 05, 2014, 09:14:23 AM
Wik, Tony or anyone else with ideas
I've been following this thread with interest. Tony has me convinced I'm going to have to open up my unit again, to install a permanent probe.......then I'm going to do an autotune. What I'm wondering is......should there be some kind of standardized autotune procedure? Something like.....3 standard bricks of x,y,z dimensions on the middle shelf, PID program of this, this and this, etc. I really don't want to do a 10+ hour autotune like Tony did. But I'm thinking you should probably incorporate low temps (say around 90 degrees) as well as high temps (say around 350) and of course our relatively standard temp of 225, and this should be done over several steps. I guess I'm just thinking out loud and looking for input.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on April 05, 2014, 12:26:58 PM
Gary,

The autotune process, itself, didn't take 10 hours.  It was done flashing in about 2 hours; I had just programmed 10 hours in the Auber so it wouldn't shut off too early.  According to Auber, you want to run the autotune as close as possible to "actual" cooking conditions.  I've done it with 3 bricks and a water pan, and during actual smokes.  I don't think the program is critical, as long as it's a "realistic" program.  The PID is learning the particulars of your smoker, such as how fast to ramp-up the temp, when to throttle-back as it nears the set point, and how much power to apply to maintain a given temp.  I think 2-3 programmed steps is sufficient. 

Since autotuning the fixed probe, it has performed incredibly well for a couple of different programs.  I did a 10 lb Boston butt last weekend, and it worked very well.  So, the point is, you don't have to get too technical, or complicated, to get good results.  Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on April 06, 2014, 09:49:56 AM
OK now it's starting to make more sense. I guess cold smoking wouldn't need to be part of the equation, since we're "tricking" the smoker to do one thing, while it "thinks" it's doing something else. Again, just thinking out loud, but, I'm starting to formulate a plan ::)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on April 06, 2014, 11:28:03 AM
I don't believe you would be able to autotune for cold smoking, since you're really taking the temp probe out of the equation.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on April 07, 2014, 09:01:13 AM
Exactly!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on May 27, 2014, 05:59:16 PM
OK. I installed a permanent probe, just below the top shelf (ala DivotMaker) put 3 bricks in the #2, set a "cooking" program and ran autotune. I couldn't decide on what wood to use ::). The autotune ran for 2 hours. Ambient air temperature was 83 degrees. I ended up with P: 47 I: 849 D: 106. A good bit different from the factory pre tune, but not out of line with others figures I see here. Looking forward to the next smoke to see what difference this makes.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 27, 2014, 06:55:39 PM
Way to go, Gary!  I hope you find the fixed probe as accurate as I do.  I love the consistent results!  Probe placement is no longer a factor.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Garydm on May 30, 2014, 03:40:36 PM
OK I am a new owner of a #2 and I have the Auber PID. I am reading the auto tune suggestions. I have a dumb question. You use bricks and maybe a water pan so you have a load, where does the #2 internal temp probe go?

Thank You
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 30, 2014, 06:59:44 PM
Gary, the #2 internal temp probe doesn't do anything when using the PID.  If you are not bypassing the controller, just set your dial to 250.  The Auber will control the element based on feedback from the Auber box temp probe, not the #2 temp sensor. 

You can do the autotune while cooking, too; I just used bricks and a water pan to have a good heat sink and simulate cooking, since I didn't have time or anything to smoke when I autotuned. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on May 31, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
Wow! We're getting a lot of Gary's around here. Cool! I've noticed several times here, people seem to be confused a bit about the probes. Careful reading of the Auber manual tells you that if you set all your "endings" to "time", then you can use just Probe #1 (the cabinet probe). I even discovered that you can substitute the internal probe for the other probe. I was doing some ABT's when I got the "H" error. Out of desperation, I unplugged probe #1, plugged the internal temp probe into it's place and dangled it inside the cabinet. It worked. Obviously my probe #1 went bad, so I replaced it with a permanent probe. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: bigbassnutt on June 28, 2014, 07:36:39 PM
I finally did an autotune on my Auber today. Set up for a rack of ribs, 140 for 30 minutes then 225 for 4 1/2 hours. Took about 2 hours for the AT to quit flashing. Here is what my numbers were: P 32  I 931  D 116.  I did notice a difference in it maintaining temp, Everytime I looked at it, it was either 225 or 2 degree variance, a lot better than before. I was used to getting 15 degree temp swings, don't think it really affects the end result that much but nice to know its holding steady now. Next step is the permanent probe and bypass, just been hesitant to open it up.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: bigbassnutt on June 28, 2014, 07:40:36 PM
I do have a question, why do you recommend writing down the numbers after you autotune? It will store them until you change them right? I am not sure it would be necessary to change for different types of cooks.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: mnsmoker on June 29, 2014, 07:48:03 AM
I've been using the auber with fixed probe in my #2 for a couple of months, I didn't record the numbers either and you don't have to change them for different foods works great no matter what I smoke. Don't be afraid to open up the back to install the fixed probe and bypass the stock controller, from start to finish takes about an hour there are easy to follow posts on both of these mods, the fixed probe made my maverick almost useless as I rarely use it anymore, one less thing to hook up.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: GeeBee on June 29, 2014, 08:25:02 AM
Mike, I believe Auber is the one that recommends writing the numbers down. I think it's just in case something goes blooey and you want to return to a known starting point. It will indeed store your PID settings until you change them (you can go in and manually change them if you so desire). And no, you don't need to change them for different cooks. Once the Auber is set for your box, then that's where it should stay. On the other hand, there are those of us that like to experiment  ::). I've done a few autotunes, just to see, and while I always get slightly different numbers, they're always within the ballpark. This is just for my curiosity as much as anything else.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on June 29, 2014, 01:00:31 PM
With the permanent box probe, I did one autotune only.  It has been dead-on the money each and every smoke since.  It never varies more than 2 degrees.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: es1025 on July 01, 2014, 11:55:49 AM
here are my results:

P 56
I 283
D 160

Used two bricks, one water can, and a hanging probe below the bricks.
#3.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 01, 2014, 09:39:11 PM
Sounds like you got it, Ed!  The key, with the removable probe, is to put it in as close to the same spot as possible during the cook.  That spot is where it read those measurements, so try to duplicate it.  Of course, the permanent probe eliminates that all together. ;)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: es1025 on July 02, 2014, 08:33:02 AM
Once I bypass the controller do you recommend another auto tune?

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: es1025 on July 02, 2014, 12:33:35 PM
After bypass
Took less than two hours to calibrate.
P 51
I 115
D 130

Cabinet right below the three bricks which were on the top shelf.

Water can and foiled bottom and smoke box.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 02, 2014, 08:01:24 PM
Good job, Ed!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Big Red Home Smoker on July 20, 2014, 06:10:05 PM
Just completed my first autotune and my reslts were:
P - 87
I - 282
D - 160

Three bricks
Small water pan
Hanging probe from top rack secured with a cork
89 degrees outside
Only took 1 1/2 hours to complete autotune
Temps aligned with Maverick all the way through

Can't wait for mynfirst smoke with the Auber in charge!

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 20, 2014, 07:02:32 PM
Good job, Terry!  You'll be impressed with the Auber - makes a great smoker PERFECT!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Big Red Home Smoker on July 21, 2014, 11:00:20 AM
Ok Tony - now what might be considered a dumb question.......I have not found any documentation regarding what to do now that I have completed the autotune. 

When I start my first smoke with the autotuned Auber and the SI, do I just turn on both the SI and the Auber, crank up the SI to 250 degrees and program the Auber to my desired actual temp (example -140/230 degrees and cook time 140 for 1 hr and 230 for 5 hr) for each smoke going forward? 

In other words - do I set the Auber each time for my particular smoke details for temp and time and do I need to be concerned with any temp settings on the SI other than ensuring it is turned on?

Thanks for your patience for a new Auber user.

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: mnsmoker on July 21, 2014, 01:14:12 PM
Turn on the Auber check the settings adjust if needed. Ihave been doing ribs the last few smokes, 5 hrs. @ 235 so the Auber is ready to go no additional settings needed, but either way it only takes seconds to change.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 21, 2014, 08:20:27 PM
Terry, now that the Auber is autotuned, it will perform well to your smoker.  Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it will automatically set itself.  You will still need to adjust the programming for what you are smoking, prior to starting the cook.  I plug mine in, while still in the kitchen, and program it before hooking it up.  Plug in, and go through the 6 "steps" of the programming to adjust accordingly.  Here's a few that I use on a regular basis, and they work well for me (others have variations, as will you):

Ribs:

C01  140    E01  t    t01  0.5
C02  235    E02  t    t02  6.0
C03  0       E03   t   t03   0.0
C04  0       E04   t   t04   0.0
C05  0       E05   t   t05   0.0
C06  0       E06   t   t06   0.0

This program ramps up the temp slowly, then maintains 235 for the duration of the smoke (I check them before the program ends, and just turn it off when the ribs are done).  Notice all "E0x" settings are "t" - if there are no "Fs" present, you don't need the meat probe, just box temp.

Pork Butt:

C01  140    E01  t    t01  0.5
C02  225    E02  F   F02  198
C03  0       E03   t   t03   0.0
C04  0       E04   t   t04   0.0
C05  0       E05   t   t05   0.0
C06  0       E06   t   t06   0.0

As you can see, pretty simple once you get used to the steps.  Here, I ramp-up the wood, then let it go @ 225 until the internal temp reaches 198.  Turn off, foil, rest, eat!

Most programs, for me, are pretty similar.  Just focus on the trigger (time or temp) for the E step, then set your target with the "t" or "F" step.

Let me know if you have any other questions - we're here to help!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 21, 2014, 08:25:07 PM
Terry, as to your other questions:  You will always set the temp dial to 250 when using the Auber.  I recommend a bypass (check the Auber section for instructions - it's at the top), just so the Auber doesn't ever compete with the stock controller.

Just remember, there are 6 steps to the program, and each one has to be addressed.  This will be very obvious to you once you start cooking with it.  It also remembers your last program, so 2 rib smokes in a row will not require a change - just turn it off and back on to reset the program to the start.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Big Red Home Smoker on July 22, 2014, 03:58:01 PM
Thanks for your input Jim and Tony.  That helps a lot before I actually try the Auber.  Maybe I missed something somewhere on how to use the Auber and SI together once the autotune was completed.  The autotune should give me a consistent temp.  I'm going to complete another smoke before considering a bypass.  If everything goes ok, I'll keep the bypass option in my hip pocket for later if I need to do it.  I was originally going to also permanently mount the Auber temp probe and do the bypass.  I used the cork method to suspend the temp probe from the top grate that someone else suggested.  That worked very well with consistent temps vs my Maverick. 

Thanks again guys....appreciate the help and responsiveness!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 22, 2014, 07:19:58 PM
You're welcome, Terry!  Yeah, it gets a little confusing sometimes!  Lots of information to absorb.  Think of autotuning like having a suit tailored; off the rack, it's cut for the "generic" man, but the tailor fits it to your
build.  The Auber, out of the box, is tuned for the Bradley smoker, so you have to tailor it to your smoker.  It adjusts how fast it heats, and when to slow down/heat up to maintain the set temperature.  Now, by placing your probe in as close to the autotune location, it will perform at its peak each time.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: InTheCards on July 26, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
P: 61
I: 468
D: 183

Environment :  Las Vegas Desert summer night, 97F, windy.  Probe 1 attached to top grate in the rear using a alligator clip that is only touching the cable, not the probe itself - this will assure the probe is always in the same position.  3 Bricks on second shelf, + tray of water on the bottom shelf.  No bypass at this time, perhaps in the future.

I have not taken her out for a smoke since autotuning, will report back if results are poor.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: restorick2378 on July 26, 2014, 11:35:03 PM
SI #3 Autotune results:

P - 77
I - 992
D - 124

Permanent probe mounted about 1/2" underneath top rack, dead center.  Bypassed standard controller. Foiled the bottom of the smoker as well as the top of the box.  Added a water pan with approx 16 oz of water.

Ambient temp was 83F, autotune ran approx 90 min.

Ready to rock and roll baby!
Rick
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Walt on December 31, 2014, 09:41:14 PM
SI2
Ambient temperature 55
Wall mount probe 1" from top
2 bricks 2nd shelf & pan of water on bottom
P - 53
I - 830
D - 207
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 31, 2014, 09:44:42 PM
Walt, I had 62, 902, 112 in the #2.  Your probe placement is a little different from mine, so that probably makes the difference.  Let us know how it works out!  What model PID do you have?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Walt on December 31, 2014, 09:48:16 PM
WSD 1200GPH
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 31, 2014, 09:55:37 PM
That may be the difference too, Walt.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 02, 2015, 08:37:32 PM
Would auto tuning be a seasonal thing?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 04, 2015, 04:26:26 PM
Would auto tuning be a seasonal thing?

I don't think so.  I haven't seen any difference in different temps.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 04, 2015, 05:14:48 PM
Okay, auto tune took right at 2 hours for the "AT" to stop flashing.  CO1 was the only temp achieved and maintained even though the set time was only the .5 hour prescribed by the instructions.

After finishing the auto tune, numbers on my model 4 were as follows at an outside air temp of 50 degrees:
P-49
I-823
D-205
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 05, 2015, 09:28:31 PM
How was your program set, Dave? 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 05, 2015, 09:36:07 PM
How was your program set, Dave?
Not sure I understand the question.  CO1, CO2 & CO3 were per the Smokin-It instructions.  And like Msmith, the Auber temp readings never reflected the autotune program.  But after the AT was complete, it seems to perform as directed under regular use. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Walt on January 06, 2015, 01:12:47 AM
Tested the Bypassed setup yesterday with a brined chicken.  Started flashing AT as soon as I started it up.  I let it go for a couple hours until done (again)  Same PID readings.  Manually turned it off useing the 166 code after complete.  Expected it would revert back without having to manually do it.  Was trying to cook @ 325 but only got to 290 before the meat hit 165 because of the AT delay hovering around 140 from the recommended program.  Best chicken yet, skin was easily edible but not completely crispy.   Meat was very moist.  I'll get it crispy next time.  I think i, now,  have the tools to accomplish this.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 07, 2015, 07:59:42 PM
How was your program set, Dave?
Not sure I understand the question.  CO1, CO2 & CO3 were per the Smokin-It instructions.  And like Msmith, the Auber temp readings never reflected the autotune program.  But after the AT was complete, it seems to perform as directed under regular use.

You understood perfectly, Dave, and answered it. ;)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 07, 2015, 08:03:15 PM
Tested the Bypassed setup yesterday with a brined chicken.  Started flashing AT as soon as I started it up.  I let it go for a couple hours until done (again)  Same PID readings.  Manually turned it off useing the 166 code after complete.  Expected it would revert back without having to manually do it.  Was trying to cook @ 325 but only got to 290 before the meat hit 165 because of the AT delay hovering around 140 from the recommended program.  Best chicken yet, skin was easily edible but not completely crispy.   Meat was very moist.  I'll get it crispy next time.  I think i, now,  have the tools to accomplish this.

The issue of having to manually turn off the autotune is apparently a known issue with some of the earlier-made 1200G series PIDs.  I've been told you can contact Auber for a fix to this (not sure how that works, though). 

One thing you might want to do is perform an autotune with some bricks or sand as a heat sink, rather than meat, due to what you were talking about.  The AT program can be a little weird, and it works more stress-free if meat is not on the line!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Walt on January 07, 2015, 08:08:43 PM
My 1st autotune was with bricks & I finished with the exact same PID numbers.  I didn't expect that.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 07, 2015, 09:22:41 PM
My 1st autotune was with bricks & I finished with the exact same PID numbers.  I didn't expect that.

Cool. 8)   I missed that...
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Limey on January 11, 2015, 08:02:34 PM
Just finished an auto tune with the following results;
P=87 I=153 D=288. Ambient was 78 degrees. Load was a large(19"x3"x3") filled water pan and three coral blocks that approximated the weight of three bricks.
Are we still pursuing this effort to collect data? If so then we need lots more participants and probably a standard testing protocol as previously suggested.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 11, 2015, 08:12:16 PM
Are we still pursuing this effort to collect data? If so then we need lots more participants and probably a standard testing protocol as previously suggested.

We're just taking them as they come, Roger.  We're not that formal around here - just collecting results for comparison purposes, I guess! ;)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Limey on January 11, 2015, 08:44:08 PM
OK Tony, duly noted! I'm concerned that my I value seems out of line. Will smoke a chicken tomorrow and see how it does.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Limey on January 18, 2015, 06:21:37 PM
The smoked chicken was the best I have ever done. I guess my auto-tune numbers are ok for my unit.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: mcinore on February 18, 2015, 08:25:13 AM
Autotune numbers from last night.
SI 4
Outside temp 55
P-42
I-914
D-228
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: LongBall on February 20, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
Auto Tune today SI3 about 65-70* @ Sea Level So Cal. Non-ByPass. Pan of water and two large bricks.Now that I think I understand this I will do bypass tomorrow. Probe was mounted.

P49
I660
D165


Not sure why I was having such a hard time understanding this but I had to read this stuff about 5x before an understanding finaly set in.


DivotMaker

Thanks for the cook settings that you use. This will be my second go at a Butt Tomorrow I used your brine as well. We like the rub below for pork.


6 tsp corn starch
6 tsp salt
6 Tbsp coarse ground pepper
1 1/2 tsp ground oregano
1 1/2 tsp lemon pepper
12 tsp garlic power
12 tsp onion power
3 tsp smoked paprika
3 tsp beef stock base - granulated
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on February 20, 2015, 09:53:46 PM
Interesting looking rub there, Bart!  Glad to hear you're having success.  Thanks for the "nod" on the brine! :D
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: LongBall on February 21, 2015, 11:57:30 PM
After bypass 60* water pan two large bricks and of course the foil


P49
I595
D148
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: jbauch357 on February 26, 2015, 10:32:30 PM
SI #2 with stock controller bypass and permanent temp probe 2" from the top dead center.  Ambient temp was 50-60 degrees during the two runs.  For both of these runs I also did use chips, I figured there isn't any use auto tuning if the heat from the chips isn't part of the equation.

Run 1 (couple beer cans with water in them, and 3 big wet rocks from yard):
P - 53
I - 893
D - 223

Run 2 (couple beer cans with water in them, two big pans full of water and wrapped in foil):
P - 61
I - 898
D - 224

OK, I couldn't take the fluctuations and slow response time.  After another hour of pondering my results as well as digging into the manual, I made some changed to the PID.

Here is what I'm running with now, we'll see what happens.
P - 50
I - 750
D - 150
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on February 27, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
Josh,

I believe Run 1 would have yielded the most accurate results.  Your water pans, covered in foil, would have given off a lot of reflective heat, instead of absorbing it (like meat).  Did you run a regular program, after the Run 1 autotune, to test the accuracy?  Not sure why you would change the contents and re-run without a test.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: coachB on February 27, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
OK, after a lengthy delay I was finally prepared (I think) to do the autotune.   I did the bypass, did the rocker switch install, completed the permanent auber probe install, and seasoned the #3 that has been sitting in my LR since mid-Jan. I don't know if the programming was done correctly.  My reading skills are not what they once were, because after reading the directions and setting the autotune I realized after 2 hrs at 114 something was not right.  I sat down and reread the directions and came to the conclusion I had neglected to program the PID CO1-CO6 steps BEFORE starting the autotune.  Back to square one.  Entered the numbers according to the directions and tried again.  Checked after 2.5 hrs. and the autotune had completed.  The numbers, compiled with an outside temp of 40 degrees, was as listed below:
                    P  =  80
                    I   =  945
                    D  =  236

How do these numbers seem, Tony?  I am hoping they are not totally out of whack.

I have been visiting this site daily, at least, but didn't have anything to contribute until I got my SI3 ready to go.  I have been pulling recipes, rubs, brines, toys, ad infinitum from this site and smf in preparation.  It is a b...h when you become obsessive compulsive about something.  I will fill you all in on the process and pickups in other appropriate sections of the forum.  I haven't anticipated anything this much since HS sophomore prom night.  (Hope I am luckier this time around.)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on February 27, 2015, 09:09:50 PM
Numbers look right in line to me, Bill!  Yeah, I missed that program thing, too, the first time I tried an autotune!  Not many instructions, back then, and that's why I've tried to help others with it!

Good to see you with us again! 8)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: coachB on February 27, 2015, 10:10:21 PM
Thanks for the comeback Tony.  I can sleep easy tonight knowing the auber is in line.  Now tomorrow it will be time to start the Canadian bacon and do up some ribs.  And actually, I never left.  I've been on the board daily, just didn't have anything to add so I kept my mouth shut.  I won't do much to build up a post count, but when I do post I tend to make it lengthy.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on February 27, 2015, 10:57:55 PM
Any contributions are good, Coach - just so we know you're still with us!  It isn't about "post count," but more about a conversation, around here.  I like to think of our forum (different from most) as a conversation among friends.  That's what keeps it fun, and friendly! :D   Everyone's opinions and ideas matter!  You never know when the slightest comment, or opinion, will spark someone's creativity.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on March 08, 2015, 01:18:06 PM
Autotune numbers from last night.
SI 4
Outside temp 55
P-42
I-914
D-228
I ran a second auto tune on my #4 this morning and it varied a bit from my first auto tune.  Numbers from this morning.
P-42
I-855
D-213
Morning temperature was 51 degrees. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: mcinore on March 09, 2015, 08:43:29 AM
Looks pretty close to what I got. Did you have a pan of water added?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on March 09, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I used an open pan of wet sand on a middle shelf and a small pan of water on the wood box. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on March 09, 2015, 09:31:29 PM
Hopefully it will hold temp on those small "one rack of rib" smokes, Dave!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: mcinore on March 09, 2015, 10:00:29 PM
I've done single ribs and even a small tri tip roast this weekend and never had more than a couple of degrees fluctuation. Thinking your new PID numbers should correct it.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Carp210 on March 12, 2015, 04:04:43 PM
SI #2 Auto Tune (800 watt)
By passed with fixed probe mounted 2" from top
Auber WSD-1200 GPH
Air temp 44 degrees
Two wet bricks on 2nd shelf
Mini loaf pan/ hot water next to wood box
Foil on bottom of #2 and top of wood box

Results
P=68
I=623
D=155

Update:  I had problems with the above tune. Temp ramped up and over shot target by 55+ degrees before I turned Auber off.
This happened during a rib cook and in hind sight it was probabley caused by wood catching fire.

Did another tune and changed from bricks to pan of wet sand.  This seems to be working well.

New values:
P=57
I=826
D=206
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: TexasSMK on April 25, 2015, 12:03:55 PM
I ran my auto tune--did not watch it like a hawk so don't know all the max temps etc....
Here is my set up for my SI #2
Auber WSD-1200 GPH using WS-SENSOR11 wall mounted probe.
By passed control, with wall mounted probe 1 1/4 inches from top. (Sorry, just want to be different)
Three bricks second from top shelf with a beer can of water on bottom shelf centered above heating element.
Ambient Temperature:  44F
Program: C-1 140 for .5
      C-2 225 for 2
      C-3 140 for 5
Ran for about 1.5 hours
Results
P= 57
I= 853
d=213

Let me know if this is not Good--appears to be close with most.  Thanks for all the great information in this forum--going for first smoke tonight!

First picture is my seasoning run--break in
Second is Set up of Auto tune
Third Auto tune is complete and cooling down---I think.
First smoke coming soon. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Carp210 on April 25, 2015, 07:45:46 PM
Dale,
Your numbers look good. When you do your smokes put the water can on the bottom rear right next to the fire box.  A foil mini loaf pan works well for a water pan.  Let us know how it ramps up to target temp and if it over shoots.  Should settle and lock on your target till the end.  Once you are comfortable it's set it and forget it.  Enjoy your #2 and don't forget to post some photos. ;D
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: TexasSMK on April 28, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Done that--thanks Dave.  On my second smoke--longest to date--my temperature exceeded my high temp by 7 degrees initially, but cooled to target and held steady for four hours.  Very happy with it. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on April 28, 2015, 09:49:09 PM
Numbers look good to me, too, Dale!  Now go smoke something! ;)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2015, 03:12:03 PM
Here are my results:
SI #2 Auto Tune with new installed element (800 watt)
By passed with fixed probe mounted 2" from top
Auber WSD-1200 GPH
Air temp 77 degrees
Two bricks on 2nd shelf
Mini loaf pan/ hot water next to wood box
Foil on bottom of #2 and top of wood box

Results
P=76
I=600
D=357, from what noticed in this group this D=357 seems high??
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2015, 07:27:55 PM
Redid the test for comparison.  Same set up. I gues I'm gonna have to try again in the morning

P=76.        ,
I= 11.....very strange number??
D=252

First test P=76, I=600, D=357

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 07, 2015, 07:53:02 PM
Redid the test for comparison.  Same set up. I gues I'm gonna have to try again in the morning

P=76.        ,
I= 11.....very strange number??
D=252

First test P=76, I=600, D=357

Something must have been off, Mike.  The I value is way off the mark.  Your first numbers looked much better.  Why did you do it twice?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 07, 2015, 07:55:44 PM
D=357, from what noticed in this group this D=357 seems high??

I don't think it's too far out of line.  I'd run a "simulated" cook to test it.  Use the same setup as your autotune, but set C01 to 225 and time 2.0.  Zero all other steps.  Turn it on, and see how it holds temp.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2015, 08:09:24 PM
Will do, the reason I did again was because of the 357 didn't come close to any of the posted results?

I'll run it again in the morning and see if it holds..

Mike
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 07, 2015, 10:52:33 PM
Gotcha, Mike.  I should have picked up on that. :-[   I'd still do a simulated cook before an autotune.  I think your "I" number will work.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Mike on May 08, 2015, 01:31:06 PM
Tony, I did the sim. And the Auber/SI2 held at 225 with no issues..I believe I'm good to go and by the way the new element heated up fast

I did recheck my numbers without running an auto tune, these numbers seem right in line with most.... I wonder where did that "11" come from??  Maybe one too many beverages and not wearing my reading glasses..lol....
P=64
I=600
D=252

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on May 08, 2015, 08:28:05 PM
Great, Mike!  I put the 800 in the ol' #2 last weekend, and boy, does that sucker heat up fast!  I did a strip clean (EZ-Off about once a year) and re-season, and was up to 250 in less than 20 minutes!  More to follow on all I did to the smoker last weekend! ;)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: TexasSmoke on July 04, 2015, 06:47:01 PM
I finished by autotune today on my #3 with a perm temp sensor (1 1/2" from top center), Stock control and WSD-1500GPH:

90* ambient, 6 medium bricks (Tried to approx. sixe of brisket),
2nd shelf from the top, water pan, drip pan, foiled bottom and wood box

RESULTS
P: 72
I: 600
D: 271

My results seem a bit different that others.  Does it look OK?  Should I have used 3 bricks like others?

Also the unit did not turn off when done and stayed at 140 WAY longer than 30 minutes.  I am not sure if the autotune was still flashing when it switched to 225.  I checked the menu and the AT was = to 0 so I think I should be OK for my next smoke. 

I am doing a brisket tomorrow  Can I do an autotune on my normal brisket program?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 04, 2015, 07:14:38 PM
Ron, the unit doesn't turn off when done autotuning, it just goes back to the regular program (not flashing At).  Also, when it goes to step 2 (225), it's probably not done.  It will continue until it finishes, regardless of the step. 

You can autotune with any program.  Try it with your normal brisket program, if you want.  I'd probably just try a cook with the settings you got, and see how it does, before re-doing the tune.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: TexasSmoke on July 04, 2015, 07:39:46 PM
Thanks Tony!

So if it was no longer flashing AT and I turned it off while still in my program did I still get good numbers?

Was the 6 bricks to many?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 04, 2015, 07:49:48 PM
Ron, if it stopped flashing, you were OK to turn it off...that means it was done.  No problem with 6 bricks, either!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on July 04, 2015, 09:57:48 PM
Ron, I've done 2 auto tunes and both stayed at 140 for the entire auto tune period.  My auto tunes both took a little over 1 1/2 hours which as you say was much longer than program 1 was set.  All is good on the working end though.  You should be fine tomorrow for a test cook.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: TexasSmoke on July 05, 2015, 12:02:39 AM
It's interesting it never makes it to program 2. It makes me wonder should we start the 1st program at 225 so it would test at the temp we normally smoke at.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 05, 2015, 02:40:25 PM
The program really doesn't matter, Ron, so long as there is a program.  The older units tuned a little differently than the new GPH models.  I may modify the autotune instructions to reflect that.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: FunkedOut on July 11, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Wik, great thread; I suggest making this a sticky.
I have some data points to contribute.

I received a WSD-1500GPH this week and got the wall-mount probe installed on my SI3, 3/4" from the top of the chamber with a 1/2" spacer behind the rear wall.  Started playing with it.  Here's what I got:


ContributorPIDSI ModelAir TempMeat/LbsStart/EndByPassedNotes
Valid Range1-9990-9990-999
Preset70600150
FunkedOut106999734#390FemptyStartYesset temp = 100F; auto-tune = 5.5 hours; no wood
FunkedOut80765191#390FemptyStartYesset temp = 200F; auto-tune = 1.5 hours; no wood
FunkedOut72510127#390FemptyStartYesset temp = 300F; auto-tune = 1.5 hours; no wood
FunkedOut57441110#390FemptyStartYesset temp = 400F; auto-tune = 1.4 hours; no wood


I want to point out the values I put in the Valid Range row. 
Both, the manual on the auber site (v.1.0) and the manual that is on the CD included with the unit (v.1.5) list the "Range" for P, I and D the same as the values you listed in your original post.  However, when playing with the unit, I am able to set the P, I and D values anywhere from 0/1-999.  The 100F auto-tune yielded results for both I and D that are out of that range.

Looks like when trying to tune with the set temp (100F) only 10F above the ambient temp (90F), the unit calculated a value for I approaching infinity.  This says the SI3 is outside of its operating range in those conditions; cold smoking conditions.  I need to try an auto-tune with set temp to 100F and the cold smoking plate and a block of ice...

I hypothesize that increased airflow, say by adding a small fan blowing air into the chamber would have similar impacts to the PID values as does increasing the set temp.
Increased temperature results in more convection (airflow) which slows down the heating of the box a bit and also cools it down faster.
The difference between a fan and increased temp is the difference from ambient temp.  The higher the temperature of the chamber, the greater the temperature difference, the faster the chamber will cool down towards ambient.
Maybe a fan would bring the SI3 into proper operating conditions under cold smoking conditions.

While I am on the airflow discussion, I would like to bring up that I have an extra drip hole at the rear of my SI3 bottom, doubling my airflow and changing the system behavior a bit.  This hole is where I plan to enlarge and add a fan.
Although, at the moment (just before adding the auber), the SI3 was making great BBQ.  8)
I don't want to mess up a good thing.

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: FunkedOut on July 27, 2015, 09:41:49 PM
Collected a couple more data points after enlarging my rear airflow hole to 5/8" (front drip hole is still 3/8"):

ContributorPIDSI ModelAir TempMeat/LbsStart/EndByPassedNotes
Valid Range1-9990-9990-999
Preset70600150
FunkedOut49407101#383FemptyStartYesset temp = 400F; auto-tune = 1.4 hours; no wood
FunkedOut4538997#383FemptyStartYesset temp = 400F; starting temp = 400F; auto-tune = 1.4 hours; no wood

Although I don't have a fan, enlarging the hole certainly increased airflow and had the same effects on the PID values as increasing the set temp.  Compare my previous post entry for set temp = 400F.

Today's second entry is almost identical to the first.  The only difference between the two is that the second entry was the result of an auto-tune initiated with the smoker already at the set temp (400F).  I was wondering if the initial warm up and overshoot was affecting the auto-tune calculations so I ran this second auto-tune to test the theory.  Such small differences in value indicate that the auber is not affected by starting at 0F and climbing up to temp.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 27, 2015, 10:10:59 PM
Interesting data, Funk, but I would caution you against using a 400° setpoint.  According to Steve, the box is not rated higher than 350°, so you are risking damage, going to 400.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Limey on July 27, 2015, 10:41:13 PM
Although in some earlier posts he indicated that 500 degrees was OK.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 27, 2015, 10:45:06 PM
Although in some earlier posts he indicated that 500 degrees was OK.

Please find those posts.  I have discussed this with Steve, and the factory engineers have stated 350 as the rating.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: FunkedOut on July 28, 2015, 02:21:01 AM
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1041.msg4314#msg4314
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1015.msg4067#msg4067

those are the two I found.  Both by johnnytex where he says he got the 500*F number from Steve.  There are several posts by you (DivotMaker) saying you got a 350*F number from Steve.  Could not find any posts by Steve or any info on smokin-it.com regarding the rated temp value.

I'd love to know the truth, not the safe margin for warranty claim value, and not the head buried in the sand value.
Really, the stainless will hold up fine and so will the element and wiring.  It's the insulation rating that we need to worry about; at least for me, having removed the original controller.
I've modified my SI3 and plan to keep it for a long time.
I don't plan to cook above 250*F often, but like to run the temp up to 400*F for a good crisp/bark/sear/burn for a short while at times.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 28, 2015, 07:55:32 PM
I'd love to know the truth, not the safe margin for warranty claim value, and not the head buried in the sand value.
Really, the stainless will hold up fine and so will the element and wiring.  It's the insulation rating that we need to worry about; at least for me, having removed the original controller.
I've modified my SI3 and plan to keep it for a long time.
I don't plan to cook above 250*F often, but like to run the temp up to 400*F for a good crisp/bark/sear/burn for a short while at times.

Funk, we're both right.  Early on, when JohnnyTex talked to Steve, the 500 number was mentioned.  However, 350 is the number he is sticking with now.  Not to say the box can't support a higher temperature, just be assured it will be solely at your own risk.  Personally, I'll think you'll find trying to take your #3 to 400 will be a painfully slow process, and not worth the effort (your meat will be done way before it hits that temp).  If you need a high-temp finish, just pre-heat your oven so you can transfer to it straight out of the smoker.  This is a smoker, not an oven.  Steve told me he will not endorse going above 350 in his smokers.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: FunkedOut on July 28, 2015, 11:52:45 PM
Thanks for checking in again on this, Divot.
I'd venture to guess that materials have not changed from 2013. 
I did buy my #3 about the time johnnytex made those posts.

Totally agree on the at-my-own-risk part.  I never was under the impression that these products came with a warranty anyway.

As far as getting to 400F, the #3 gets there in 40 minutes from being completely cold.  It's good to go.  8)

At any rate, 350*F is plenty high enough for a smoker.  Plenty high.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on July 29, 2015, 08:27:29 PM
I never was under the impression that these products came with a warranty anyway.

As far as getting to 400F, the #3 gets there in 40 minutes from being completely cold.  It's good to go.  8)

At any rate, 350*F is plenty high enough for a smoker.  Plenty high.
Thanks again.

Warranty is 3 years - longest of any like these! ;)   400 in 40 minutes is great!  I haven't gone higher than 235 in my #3 yet, but that big element does heat up fast.  I tried 325, with chicken, in my #2 and it was done long before hitting 325!

"At any rate, 350*F is plenty high enough for a smoker.  Plenty high." -- Agreed!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: allmann on September 07, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
Installed the probe and by passed the switch yesterday. Auto tuned today with a large brick and a can of water. Set the program, it didn't follow it, and it ranged from the high 120s to the high 170s.

the final #s
P= 80
I= 600
D= 303



I will be testing it out tomorrow on a few racks of ribs.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on September 08, 2015, 08:19:48 PM
Installed the probe and by passed the switch yesterday. Auto tuned today with a large brick and a can of water. Set the program, it didn't follow it, and it ranged from the high 120s to the high 170s.

the final #s
P= 80
I= 600
D= 303



I will be testing it out tomorrow on a few racks of ribs.

You can also set the autotune to straight temp, like 225 for 4 hours, and let it process.  It should tune pretty close, but your numbers don't look out of line.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: stockstinks on September 14, 2015, 10:13:37 AM
just an idea for you all.
Instead of using sand or bricks for a load during your autotune,
use salt.
 I have been using table salt and when I am finished I end up with smokey salt that I can use on my eggs or anything.

I have a SI 2 with an Auber 1800 watt pid. I mounted the permenent temp probe just above the stock location.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: elkins20 on September 14, 2015, 11:41:59 AM
That is an interesting idea, but you would need 2 small loaf pans full of salt. Not sure if would want that much smoked salt.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on September 14, 2015, 08:24:40 PM
Glad to have you with us, Stock!  Now that you're here, head over to the Introductions section and tell us a little about yourself.  Also, add a first name and town to your signature line so we know who our new friend is - you've probably noticed we all do that here. 

Adding some salt on an autotune is not a bad idea.  Personally, I don't use wood during the tune, and think it would take an awful lot of salt to simulate the heat sink effect of a 8 lb butt, but you could.  It would be a lifetime supply of smoked salt!

Not knocking the idea, but to me, the autotune is not a time for any kind of food production.  No need to use wood, as this is just a utilitarian exercise to tune the Auber.  Just my 2¢..
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: allmann on September 15, 2015, 09:19:07 PM
divot you don't think the heat of the wood burning adds to the heat?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: elkins20 on September 16, 2015, 04:54:21 AM
divot you don't think the heat of the wood burning adds to the heat?

Hey Kevin, yes the wood smoking will add some heat to the internal temp. of the smoker. Just normally people will not use wood on an auto tune.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on September 16, 2015, 10:06:40 PM
divot you don't think the heat of the wood burning adds to the heat?

Theoretically, I suppose the smoldering wood does provide some heat.  But, since it is not flaming, the heat will be negligible.  Plus, I've proven, to myself, that autotuning without wood works perfectly.  You have to remember that the Auber is gauging how fast the element heats up, and when to throttle it back to not overshoot the set point, and then how to maintain it.  Since the most heat, from the wood, will be generated at the start of the heating process, it would be pretty stable while the Auber is autotuning.  So, the rate at which the element heats and cools will not change, based on the wood burn; it will only read a higher box temp while doing so.  Adding wood is a personal choice...not necessary, but OK if it makes you feel better about the process.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Mr. D on December 02, 2015, 03:43:43 PM
I have a wall mounted probe
P - 87
I- 600
D - 273

Not sure what that means but that is the numbers after I auto tuned.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 02, 2015, 08:32:30 PM
Mr D - it means your smoker now holds temp, as you found out in your test! 8)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: 74redone on December 19, 2015, 08:07:06 AM
I'm getting ready to do my auto tune and as I'm ready they these posts I noticed that some talked about disconnecting the temp prob that was factory installed in the smoker. Is this what you are supposed to do when u install the Auber system? I did install the wall mount twmp prob so my results would be consistent. I am ready to reinstall the back cover and just thought if I needed to disconnect the temp prob I would do it now. If so how do u guys disconnect it? Just unplug it? Thanks for the help! You guys have been great. Lots of useful info on these forms!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 19, 2015, 08:23:56 AM
No need to disconnect the stock probe.  Unless you bypass the stock controller, it needs the temp probe to function correctly when you set the dial to 250.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: 74redone on December 19, 2015, 08:40:45 AM
Thanks auto tune here I come! I will post results when I'm done.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: 74redone on December 19, 2015, 09:58:56 AM
Only bricks I can find are pavers that are a tan color. Do u think this will cause a problem?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on December 19, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
No. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Limey on December 19, 2015, 12:55:05 PM
+1. I have even used coral pavers and auto tuned just fine.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 19, 2015, 02:09:33 PM
You can also use a pan of sand, if you have any.  Just something to absorb/hold heat, like meat would.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: NVW-SSV on December 19, 2015, 02:55:27 PM
AUBER WSD 1200 GPH purchased 12/2015 /#2

Using a back yard stone paver, probably 2.5 lbs...placed on middle rack -  no water bowl - permanent probe about 1/2 inch below top rack (~4.25"below top) and checking against both Mav733 probes...

Bypassed #2
P = 72
I=  109
D=  277

Before bypass occurred (#2 all other things same)
P=  103
I=   115
D=  278
 
After bypassed tuning, I noticed that when setting up a program  C1 =  322*F -1.5 hours, it climbed to 327*/328* and maintained there for at least 25 minutes, before I manually lowered the C1 time to make it drop towards C2 = 235*F.  Is this normal to miss the target temp this much and stay there for that long?

*Also noticed that the MAV 733 probes read approx 14 and 20 degrees higher than AUBER , consistently, when temps are rising...and take around 1/2 hour to align with the Auber readout when falling/leveling from 322*F to target of 235*F.

Also noticed that when setting up a program  C1 =  322*F -1.5 hours, it climbed to 327*/328* and maintained there for at least 25 minutes, before I manually lowered the C1 time to make it drop towards 235*F.
 
Are these PID numbers in the ballpark/OK?  Wanting very much to tune this in tightly before my first "bypassed Auber" cook.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 19, 2015, 04:19:05 PM
Hi NVW (by the way, a first name in your signature line is nice...much more personal),

Your numbers look way off, to me, for a #2.  Mine were:

P   62
I    902
D   112

I wouldn't worry much about the Maverick difference; that's probably due to probe placement.  This is one of the reasons the permanent probe is great.  If you use the drop in probe, where you put it will change it dramatically.  The only way to get your Mav to read the same as the wall probe would be to attach it right beside it. 

I'd try plugging the above settings in and try it.  These work great in my #2.  Not sure why your autotune numbers are so low for the "I" setting.

Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: RSNovi on December 19, 2015, 04:35:09 PM
I don't know anything about the Auto-tune method, but what you are describing is a steady state error.  The I term is supposed to correct the steady state error.  With your I term being off I would say that would account for the error in the temp over a long time.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: NVW-SSV on December 20, 2015, 01:18:34 PM
Just did another autotune with wet, 60*F sand in a 2lb loaf pan, 55* ambient temp - and a round 4lb landscape stone. 

P= 68
I=898
D=224

Sound better? 

I'll run a dummy load for 235*F for about 2.5 hours and see what happens.  THANKS for all the help, fellas.

^SS-M^N  ( = user name)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on December 20, 2015, 02:36:50 PM
Those numbers look much better!  Let's see how it goes!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: NVW-SSV on December 20, 2015, 09:04:34 PM
Everything worked out great with the dummy load, sand and stone.  I appreciate the help getting this baby dialed in and so far LOVE the Auber PID controller.

A pic of the dummy load (sand was still a little moist after the final autotune)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 20, 2016, 10:32:39 PM
Hello folks
I tried the auto tune last night with the permanent probe.
I placed two brinks at the top (cant believe how hard it is to find spare bricks in Singapore). Foiled in correct places, added the water.
My results came in as;
P57
I063
D515
I am thinking my I figure is definitely wrong.
Any suggestions and a great big thanks for this wonderful forum of advice and suggestions.
Best regards
Andrew
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 21, 2016, 12:37:48 AM
Mick, what unit are you running?  A foil pan of wet sand also works well as a heat sink.  Can we get more information like where your probe placement is? 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 21, 2016, 03:14:26 AM
Hi Dave, I have a #2.
Probe is approx 3 inches from roof centred.
I have a WSD-1200GPH Auber.
The plain sand is harder to find than the bricks. In Singapore, you pay for everything. I might have to sneak to the beach and get a bucket!
I did soak the bricks in water.
I think I failed to program the PID first, I simply went to part 3. of the instructions (typical), I will re-soak, re-insert and do program first, then do the auto-tune.
I hope I get it right this time.
Best regards
Mick
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 21, 2016, 05:17:13 AM
Hi Dave,
It has been running for approx 1 hrs on the program. The display keeps showing;
At 144-148 on the right and -H- on the left.
The maverick temp gauge shows 162....
Does that seem right?
Best regards
Mick
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Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 21, 2016, 08:22:34 AM
Hi Dave,
Sorry, it may seem Im stalking you, but it's the time difference.
OK, second auto tune completed.
Results
P57
I461
D365
As a side note, the auber kept showing 225 as temp once completed (no longer flashing), the Maverick said 235?
I cant say they were in the exact same position as I didnt open to check and inserted Maverick after start.
How do those numbers seem?
Best regards
Mick
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Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: 74redone on January 21, 2016, 08:42:45 AM
Okay thanks guys. I ended up use sand and its working great! Prime rib pork butts all coming out great. Definitely was worth the money.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 21, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
Hi Dave,
It has been running for approx 1 hrs on the program. The display keeps showing;
At 144-148 on the right and -H- on the left.
The maverick temp gauge shows 162....
Does that seem right?
Best regards
Mick
It sounds like you are plugging the probe into the wrong port.  The left window is the box temp (Probe 1) on the back of the Auber.  The right window or Probe 2 port is the meat temp probe.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 21, 2016, 06:38:39 PM
Hi Dave, no definitely in Port #1
Do the numbers seem off?
P57
I461
D365
Best regards
Mick
[/quote]
It sounds like you are plugging the probe into the wrong port.  The left window is the box temp (Probe 1) on the back of the Auber.  The right window or Probe 2 port is the meat temp probe.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 21, 2016, 10:42:49 PM
They seem somewhat off to me.  But do a test smoke with something inexpensive like a chicken and see how it runs.  I'm still very confused by your statement that the left window was an -H-.  That is the smoker box temp window and should be showing your smoker temperature.  Were you doing your auto tune with just one probe in or two? 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 22, 2016, 12:09:33 AM
Hi Dave,
I think I have discovered I'm dyslexic!
Left side window was flashing with temp (numbers)
Right side showed the -H-
Sorry mate, just cant seem to get it right!!
Thanx so much for the feedback.
Best regards
Mick
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 22, 2016, 12:10:10 AM
Hi Dave,
I think I have discovered I'm dyslexic!
Left side window was flashing with temp (numbers)
Right side showed the -H-
Just the one probe.
Sorry mate, just cant seem to get it right!!
Thanx so much for the feedback.
Best regards
Mick
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 22, 2016, 07:30:12 PM
Hi Dave
Re-did the auto tune with a setting at 220
Results came back as
P 57
I 600
D 365
So feeling much more confident.
Best regards
Mick
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Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: SuperDave on January 22, 2016, 07:38:15 PM
Okay, Mick, time to quit screwing around with bricks and put some meat I it.   8)
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: DivotMaker on January 22, 2016, 07:42:52 PM
Hi Mick!  Great to have a Aussie smoker in the club!  In Singapore, no less!!  Must have been quite a chore getting an SI to you!

Your latest autotune #s look pretty good.  I bet the difference you are seeing in your SI & Maverick probes are placement...a little difference makes a lot of difference, sometimes.  I can't recommend installing the wall-mount probe enough.  I believe it is essential to getting the most out of your Auber.  It absolutely takes away the placement errors that can occur with the drop-in.

When you get a minute, head over to the Introductions section and tell us a little about yourself - I bet it's a great story!  BBQ background, how an Aussie ended up in Singapore with a SI smoker, you know...just the basics! ;)

I really look forward to your take on our BBQ, and hearing about your recipes!
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: MicKM on January 23, 2016, 12:22:32 AM
Hi Tony, thanx for the post.
Getting the Si #2 to Singapore and the step down transformer etc has been an experience.
I've just laid 8 racks in for this afternoons gathering, so I'm expecting a big result.
Hardest thing is to get wood here...
There's a great guy from the USa who's started a big smokin shack in Bali, so he's been a great help.

I will go to the page and a bit more indepth about Smokin in Singapore!
Thanx for th post, I've taken some snaps of the setup and ribs so will post.
Best regards
Mick
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Norwester on December 30, 2019, 11:05:17 PM
There hasn't been any #'s posted for a few yrs but since I'm using a #1 and I only saw one other in here thought I'd post 'em.
eta-WSD-1200GPH

P-45
I-791
D-197
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: old sarge on December 30, 2019, 11:11:26 PM
Jeff - I am guessing that you are using a stand alone PID with your #1?
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Norwester on December 30, 2019, 11:47:22 PM
Yep David, the WSD-1200GPH. I've been procrastinating about it since last march and finally got everything wired in yesterday.
Bypass with an On-Off-On switch and wall mount probe. I'll try some ribs tomorrow and see how it does.
I ran a boiler house for a lumber co and they installed a PID setup 6-7 yrs before I retired that controlled fans,
drafts, and fuel supply. I think I remember enough to fine tune if I have to. I think....
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: old sarge on December 31, 2019, 08:19:46 PM
Jeff - If you run into any problems, Auber can give you the factory P I D settings. 
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Norwester on December 31, 2019, 11:24:21 PM
Thanks, just tried a spare rib cook, programmed the Auber for 225* and an hour + later temp was at 213-214 and wouldn't go any higher.
I just switched back to the analog controller and using my Smoke probe I'm at 220* and rising. I'll try another autotune tomorrow and then
simulate a cook with the bricks and my smoke air temp robe in there also. Probably something simple. Like the operator....  :P
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: old sarge on January 01, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
If bricks don't give you the results you are looking for, try a disposable pan of damp/wet sand.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Norwester on January 02, 2020, 12:37:19 AM
Success! After switching back to the analog controller I couldn't get the temp over 236*! it was getting late so I finished
the ribs in the oven at 260*. Thinking about it I knew it should be running up to 265-275 with the controller set at 250.
Could the element be bad. No, looked at it and it was bright orange/red hot. It finally dawned on me that due to the short
cord on the Auber I was using a 6 ft heavy duty extension cord. Ran another autotune today (without the cord) and did a
simulated cook. It ran up to 227, dropped back to 225 and cruised along. It did the same thing at 250 and 275. I knew it
was something simple and I'm glad it was as easy as not using the extension cord.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: old sarge on January 02, 2020, 07:33:26 PM
Extension cords can pose their own set of problems.
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: coyote on September 13, 2020, 09:42:41 PM
Just got finished with my auto tune on my 3 , with my new Auber
The numbers I come up with
P 72
I 600
D 274
 Two bricks and can of water
Does this sound about right? I know this is an old topic but just that I’d ask
Thanks
Coyote
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: coyote on September 14, 2020, 11:09:02 AM
Did a re tune this morning and got this reading
P 72
I 134
D 283
So different which one sounds right?
Thanks
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: Paul B on January 11, 2021, 07:51:37 PM
My numbers:  P-49, I-923, D-230
Model- cloned ss cabinet
55° ambient
5 bricks
No water or foil
1 hour 44 minutes to tune
For its size(akin to a SI 3.5) my numbers look in line with others.
Paul B
Title: Re: Auto Tuning - Group Results
Post by: travis on February 04, 2024, 09:58:33 PM
Auto tune numbers for my si3 with an auber ws1211.
Outside temp 50f, 2 patio paver bricks for heat sink.
P-68
I-850
D-212