Smokin-It User Forum!
Smokin-It Smokers => Model 3 & 3D - The Big Brother => Topic started by: Glock_21 on August 10, 2015, 09:48:36 PM
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Starting a new thread to avoid hijacking Kevin's thread. Tony will you please move the relevant posts here?
Seems like the cook times on my #3 have been long from the start. Here is a link to a thread about my initial smoke with the #3.
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=3620.0
Nothing has changed since that first smoke. I have done several pork butts and one whole brisket. Cook times are always much longer than what I would consider "normal". I came up with "normal" based on previous smoking experience, reading the details on other people's posts, and comparing my smokes to a co-worker who is using a Cookshack smoker.
I contacted Steve, he suggested watching the temps with an empty smoker at 250. I did that and saw temps from ~225 to ~275. I placed a large pan of warm water in the smoker and then the temp never hit 250 again.
I did not contact Steve again after seeing that the unit would average 250 empty.
I have removed the adjustment knob to make sure the travel was maxed out on the rheostat.
My procedure has been the same for every smoke. Foil in the bottom, punch a hole. Foil on the lid (only) of the firebox. Wad up a little foil and place it under the firebox to level it out. Loaf pan 3/4 full of water on the floor of the unit on the right side of the firebox. 2-3 small chunks of wood in the box. I usually "boat" 1 or 2 wood chunks in foil. Meat goes on the middle shelf or the shelf above. No other shelves in the smoker, no drip pan in the smoker itself. Temp set-point at 225 or 230 until I realize that it isn't going to get done on time and then I move it up to 250 (or finish in the oven). The door doesn't get opened until it gets near the end "if you're lookin' then you ain't cooking', lol".
I've started brining pork butts (Tony's recipe). I remove them from the brine, rinse, pat dry, and then apply rub. Sometimes they go straight to the smoker from the fridge. Other times I let them set out for a bit. Haven't noticed a major difference in cook time either way.
I have no complaints with the end result other than the 18-20 hour cook times that should be 14-16.
I wish someone could just tell me that this is the way it works with an electric smoker. But I am just not seeing that from you guys that have been using one for a while.
Thanks in advance for any information. This is one of the best "troll free" forums that I have ever seen. Lots of good folks here with a lot of good information.
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Hey Travis, I did read your post of the 1st smoke and noticed a couple of things you might try. 1st I use a temp. of 235 for ribs and Boston Butts. Stay away from anything under 7# as below 7# takes longer to cook. I would also recommend using Butts with the bone in. I did take out the point of a brisket and going to do it in my #3. Just as an experiment for you, my #3 is 2 years old. And I will be using the Auber that I purchased along with the cart. The former owner was going into smoking at contests. I got everything for $450. Sorry also did you follow Tony's advice about checking your smoker with a couple of bricks? If so what was the temp. swing? How long did it take for the ribs to complete?
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Hey Travis, that is the truth, I really cannot help much as just did 3 racks of ribs in my #3. It is also 2 yrs. old but the ribs were very moist and tender. I just finished doing modifications to both smokers. I will try a point of a brisket, prior to getting the #3 I had purchase 2 briskets at 14# and cut them into & put them in the freezer. I also have an issue with my maverick but will check it out. I totally agree with you that your BB should not take longer than maybe 10 hrs. When I did mine I used the Texas crutch. When it hits an IT of 160 degrees, I pulled it triple wrapped in foil and back until it hit 195. That smoke took about 10 hours in my #1. Now if you have a large brisket say a 14# one then it might run around 15 hrs. And Steve the owner did not offer you any help/suggestions? Have you spoken with Tony/DeviotMaker about this problem?
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Besides getting in the "guts" of the equipment, I'd test try a 10 lb in bone butt or something larger than a picnic or small in bone.
Last one I did was a 7 - 8 in bone butt lb and it took 16/17 hours.
Your method isn't flawed, it's either the cut of meat or the smoker.
Worst case ????, which maybe someone else will recommend is a $35 replacement heating element? (on the site available)
How were other foods? Ribs turn out ok?
I have a hunch this is an easy fix. While not easy when trying to plan a cook or meal it can be dealt with.
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I had same issues with the butts because I was worried and would only cook at 220-225 didn't want to over cook when I sleep. Change it to 235 and I bet your times are more in line with your thoughts. I do use the auber and couldn't imagine why anyone wouldn't
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I think the Auber is a great idea. But after spending ~650 on a smoker it seems unreasonable to spend another 225 on a controller to make it work better. The temp swings from an analog controller don't bother me. My complaint is that the box will not average the setpoint with food in it. It will only average the setpoint if it is empty.
I've accepted the fact that I just need to allow 2+ hours per pound when using the #3. Food comes out great but the cook times are nowhere near as predictable as the Traeger.
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I don't know that your times are really that far off.
I buy all of my Boston Butts (never a picnic) at Sam's Club and they come in two-packs with each butt averaging 7-9 pounds.
My process that is pretty fool-proof is to brine them a day before, rinse/dry/apply mustard/rub, let rest in the fridge for an hour and put the butt in a cold smoker set to 225 (235-240 if smoking multiple butts) with 5-6 ounces of wood around 11:00PM-12:00AM. The next day, usually in the late afternoon to early evening I hit my 195, then double-foil, and place in a cooler with towels on top for 2-4 hours.
My smoker tends to run a little bit low like yours while I know that Brian's (AKA Pork Belly) seems to run a bit hot. My guess is that my average temp while set at 225 is actually closer to 210-215. But, my system works so well that I would not want it to smoke any faster or I would have to get up in the middle of the night to do all the prep work and put it into the smoker. I am usually up until 1:00 or so anyway so 11:00-12:00 is easy for me.
If you are a early to bed kind of guy, the process would still work. You would just put the butt in right before you go to bed, then turn your smoker down to 140 as soon as you hit 190 the next day which turns your smoker into a warmer until it is time to pull and rest 2 hours prior to dinner time.
I NEVER NEVER increase my temp if things aren't getting done fast enough unless I am really in a bind. Doing so pushes you faster through the stall than normal and that is where the magic happens. But with my start before going to bed method, I have never had an issue.
I always plan to have my butt done ahead of time knowing that I can put it into warmer mode or an extended rest if it gets done early.
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Glock-21 for me it came down to 2 smokers this one and a xxxxshaq amerixxx. So even with the controller it's about a grand less. I think if you get the whole banana you really have a restaurant quality device. So for me it was great value.
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I would run it at 235 not 225. Also use the highest rack you can typically the top rack. On my #3 I find the back third of the top rack is the best spot for one butt, however I typically do two and have them very close together on the top rack towards the back.
I have given up on monatering box temps and do not check meat temps on butts. I will put two 8+ pound butts in the position I described at midnight. I run the smoker at 235 with a small water pan on the right side of the fire box with 7 to 9 oz of wood.
I take the butts out at 4PM the next day sixteen hours later. After a double warp of cling film and foil and resting in a cooler or warm smoker the butts will fall apart.
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I would run it at 235 not 225. Also use the highest rack you can typically the top rack. On my #3 I find the back third of the top rack is the best spot for one butt, however I typically do two and have them very close together on the top rack towards the back.
I have given up on monatering box temps and do not check meat temps on butts. I will put two 8+ pound butts in the position I described at midnight. I run the smoker at 235 with a small water pan on the right side of the fire box with 7 to 9 oz of wood.
I take the butts out at 4PM the next day sixteen hours later. After a double warp of cling film and foil and resting in a cooler or warm smoker the butts will fall apart.
Hey Brian, I totally understand and agree that it is not necessary to monitor smoker temps. But, with every butt being different, I don't think I would give up on monitoring the internal temp of the meats. When I smoke two butts one almost always gets done and hour or two earlier than the other.
I'm not ready to give up or recommend not temping my meat quite yet.
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Since I have the permanent wall mounts in my smokers am going to monitor the box temps. and will also monitor temps in BB and briskets. Only time not monitoring meat temp. will be with pork ribs.
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I would run it at 235 not 225. Also use the highest rack you can typically the top rack. On my #3 I find the back third of the top rack is the best spot for one butt, however I typically do two and have them very close together on the top rack towards the back.
I have given up on monatering box temps and do not check meat temps on butts. I will put two 8+ pound butts in the position I described at midnight. I run the smoker at 235 with a small water pan on the right side of the fire box with 7 to 9 oz of wood.
I take the butts out at 4PM the next day sixteen hours later. After a double warp of cling film and foil and resting in a cooler or warm smoker the butts will fall apart.
Hey Brian, I totally understand and agree that it is not necessary to monitor smoker temps. But, with every butt being different, I don't think I would give up on monitoring the internal temp of the meats. When I smoke two butts one almost always gets done and hour or two earlier than the other.
I'm not ready to give up or recommend not temping my meat quite yet.
Sound advice, for the majority of us out here. Brian is a very accomplished pit master pro, and knows his meat! I will add that pork butts are very forgiving, and have a huge latitude of "acceptable" temperatures. Many get way too specific with the butt. In my experience, once you get 190-on, you're good. I've pulled them to rest as low as 188, and as high as 205. I do believe they start to dry too much above 195, so that's as high as I go now. Still, anywhere in the upper 180s to mid-190s, the bone still pulls out clean, and the meat pulls easily. This is the only large cut, in my experience, that has that level of forgiveness.
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I would run it at 235 not 225. Also use the highest rack you can typically the top rack. On my #3 I find the back third of the top rack is the best spot for one butt, however I typically do two and have them very close together on the top rack towards the back.
I have given up on monatering box temps and do not check meat temps on butts. I will put two 8+ pound butts in the position I described at midnight. I run the smoker at 235 with a small water pan on the right side of the fire box with 7 to 9 oz of wood.
I take the butts out at 4PM the next day sixteen hours later. After a double warp of cling film and foil and resting in a cooler or warm smoker the butts will fall apart.
Hey Brian, I totally understand and agree that it is not necessary to monitor smoker temps. But, with every butt being different, I don't think I would give up on monitoring the internal temp of the meats. When I smoke two butts one almost always gets done and hour or two earlier than the other.
I'm not ready to give up or recommend not temping my meat quite yet.
Sound advice, for the majority of us out here. Brian is a very accomplished pit master pro, and knows his meat! I will add that pork butts are very forgiving, and have a huge latitude of "acceptable" temperatures. Many get way too specific with the butt. In my experience, once you get 190-on, you're good. I've pulled them to rest as low as 188, and as high as 205. I do believe they start to dry too much above 195, so that's as high as I go now. Still, anywhere in the upper 180s to mid-190s, the bone still pulls out clean, and the meat pulls easily. This is the only large cut, in my experience, that has that level of forgiveness.
When I first started many years ago, I frequently took my butts to 203-205, but found that they would either dry out or sometimes get mushy. I have pulled at 175 for slicing with great results, but haven't tried pulling below 193 or so, but I am sure you are right that anything over 190 is probably pretty good to go.
Many if not most of us here are not pros though. So, as you said for the majority of us, temping your meat is probably still the way to go even for forgiving Boston butts. This being said, I see what Brian is saying too. Pretty much 100% of the time I am smoking the same Sam's Club 7.5-8.5 pound butt and could probably forgo the temp monitoring too since using the same meat source with same weight should produce pretty similar results.
I think for those that use several different meat sources and have varying weights, the temp monitoring would be more important.
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I too experienced long cooking times on my #3. Pork should on my #2 cook in 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours per pound. On the #3, I would see closer to 3 hrs. Same thing with briskets.
After investigating and consulting with Divotmaker, I discovered that the wood box on my #3 (2012? model) was drooping resulting in the bottom of the wood box resting on the heating element.
I took a brass pipe fitting about one inch in length and used that to support the front of the wood box making it the same height as the back and no longer touching the heating element. Using a Maverick 732 and the smoker unloaded, my internal temperature with the analog controller set to 250 was 288 degrees vs 257 without the brass support.
Using the support, I cooked a 6lb. bone in butt (1.5 hrs/lb @ 235), an 8lb. brisket (1.75 hr/lb.), and yesterday I cook a pair on 5lb. butts (1.75 hrs/lb.).
I just wanted to share this experience with everyone. While I realize that is not a fix all but I would recommend that anyone thinking that their temps may be low or cooking times long, check to see if the wood box is drooping. Cooking time on my #3 and my #2 are really close! This is important because I occasionally use both the #2 and #3 for bigger parties so this makes timing easy!
I would like to thank Divotmaker for REALLY taking good care of us Smoking-It members and I for one appreciate it. Oh! one more thing ... my wood chunks burn completely to ash which it never did before.
Mark
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Thanks for the reply. That's a great lead to follow. The woodbox on my #3 droops almost to the floor of the smoker. Sometimes I have propped it up a little with a wad of foil. I will investigate this further.
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Thanks, Mark, but I'm just another member trying to help, when I can. I appreciate the compliment, though!
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I don't think it is a bad thing to temp your pork butts I just don't feel a need.
Doing 12, 15 or 16 at a time there is no way to temp them. You run the average some will be 188 a few as high as 204 but most will be 190's. This is at work not in my SI.
It is a more relaxing way to smoke, just set it and walk away. No stall to worry over, just come back and get dinner when the timer goes off.
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Attaching a pic of a 9 1/2lb Boston Butt smoked 10 hours set on 230* after a 15 hour brine.
My cooking times are generally slightly on the low side of times mentioned & could not be happier with the results.
We generally smoke either a Roast / Turkey / Ham / Sausage weekly the past 2+ years since we purchased the Model 3.
This particular roast is a $0.98 per lb bone-in & was fabulous. Juicy & almost fork tender.
I do want to say Thanks to other posters for their recipe's & methods which I have copied.
For Holidays I family demands I smoke something & bring to occasions.
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Looks great, J!
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Oh! one more thing ... my wood chunks burn completely to ash which it never did before.
they always did in my #3, since day 1.... i've thought this is normal.
Yes, cooking takes longer, comparing to charcoal that is. I don't have enough experience with SI but i don't see it as a fault, just the way SI works i guess..
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I know there haven't been any recent posts on the topic of long smoke times in the model 3, but I have to chime in anyway. I hadn't used my smoker in a long time, partly because it seemed to take an awful long time to do the job. For example, I recently smoked some knockwurst at 163 degrees and after 10 hours the internal temperature was only 144. Even worse, there was virtually no smoke produced, and the wood in the firebox was barely singed.
Then, I had the brilliant idea to check this forum and I found Mark's (and other's) post on the droopy wood box phenomenon on the #3. I wadded up some foil, put it under the front of the wood box to correct the droop, and smoked some kielbasa.
This time, it was perfect -- taking about four hours at 163 degrees to reach the sweet spot of 152 internal temperature. The smoke was beautiful, just what it should have been. I'm very thankful for your advice, it helped me produce fantastic sausage, and I'm planning many other projects!
I too experienced long cooking times on my #3. Pork should on my #2 cook in 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours per pound. On the #3, I would see closer to 3 hrs. Same thing with briskets.
After investigating and consulting with Divotmaker, I discovered that the wood box on my #3 (2012? model) was drooping resulting in the bottom of the wood box resting on the heating element.
I took a brass pipe fitting about one inch in length and used that to support the front of the wood box making it the same height as the back and no longer touching the heating element. Using a Maverick 732 and the smoker unloaded, my internal temperature with the analog controller set to 250 was 288 degrees vs 257 without the brass support.
Using the support, I cooked a 6lb. bone in butt (1.5 hrs/lb @ 235), an 8lb. brisket (1.75 hr/lb.), and yesterday I cook a pair on 5lb. butts (1.75 hrs/lb.).
I just wanted to share this experience with everyone. While I realize that is not a fix all but I would recommend that anyone thinking that their temps may be low or cooking times long, check to see if the wood box is drooping. Cooking time on my #3 and my #2 are really close! This is important because I occasionally use both the #2 and #3 for bigger parties so this makes timing easy!
I would like to thank Divotmaker for REALLY taking good care of us Smoking-It members and I for one appreciate it. Oh! one more thing ... my wood chunks burn completely to ash which it never did before.
Mark
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Cool or should I say ... Hot Smoking success now!
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I too experienced long cooking times on my #3. Pork should on my #2 cook in 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours per pound. On the #3, I would see closer to 3 hrs. Same thing with briskets.
After investigating and consulting with Divotmaker, I discovered that the wood box on my #3 (2012? model) was drooping resulting in the bottom of the wood box resting on the heating element.
I took a brass pipe fitting about one inch in length and used that to support the front of the wood box making it the same height as the back and no longer touching the heating element. Using a Maverick 732 and the smoker unloaded, my internal temperature with the analog controller set to 250 was 288 degrees vs 257 without the brass support.
Using the support, I cooked a 6lb. bone in butt (1.5 hrs/lb @ 235), an 8lb. brisket (1.75 hr/lb.), and yesterday I cook a pair on 5lb. butts (1.75 hrs/lb.).
I just wanted to share this experience with everyone. While I realize that is not a fix all but I would recommend that anyone thinking that their temps may be low or cooking times long, check to see if the wood box is drooping. Cooking time on my #3 and my #2 are really close! This is important because I occasionally use both the #2 and #3 for bigger parties so this makes timing easy!
I would like to thank Divotmaker for REALLY taking good care of us Smoking-It members and I for one appreciate it. Oh! one more thing ... my wood chunks burn completely to ash which it never did before.
Mark
I have had mine prob close to 5 years or longer & noticed the same & did a similar fix with the same results.
Generally I anticipate 16 to 18 hours for large bone-in 10-12 lb Boston Butts which I brine 24 hours & generally pull them at 188* triple wrap & set aside for 30 minutes minimum before pulling. Easy way is to push the meat with your finger.