Smokin-It User Forum!
Auber PID Controllers => Auber Instructions => Topic started by: coachB on April 20, 2015, 04:56:56 PM
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My Auber has been working flawlessly with my #3. Except when smoking ribs. As others have noted here, there appears to be a problem when smoking using strictly temp parameters. Set program #1 for 6hrs at 235, all other programs zeroed out. Not using probe 2. SI box controller set fully to 250. Unit would not go above 215. Dropped the meat probe in after connecting it to no effect. As others have suggested, turned unit off/on with same results. Switched over to the SI controller, set to a guess at 235 on the dial, and watched the Auber temp numbers climb to 275 and rising. Finally just unplugged the Auber totally and will take my chances with the SI box controller.
This happened before with ribs and made me do an autotune to correct. I have done several smokes since the autotune with no problems. These units do not seem to like to do a smoke without probe #2 and running to cook time only. I will be doing another autotune before doing some bacon, loin, pastrami, and butts. I have gotten maybe 3-4 smokes since the last autotune and I hope this doesn't become a regular occurrence because it is a real PITA. A timed rib smoke should be the easiest task the Auber could be asked to handle, yet it is certainly not set and forget "easy Q". Smoking ribs are probably the most frequent choice of meats and it is bothersome to have a $200+ unit that cannot be trusted with the simplest of tasks while it handles the most complex requests without a hitch.
Anybody got any solutions?
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Provided a technical solution is out there, I was wondering if a decoy could be created like a 1/2 frozen potato or something else that the #2 probe could be plugged into?
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Bill,
When you dropped the meat probe in did it read close to your fixed probe temp of 215?
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Dave, yeah it did read the same. Additionally, when I switched over to the SI controller (through the bypass) the Auber was still connected and the temps went way up, past 300 and climbing and both probes were within a couple of degrees of each other.
Where in SE PA are you located? I lived in the 'burgh and Wheeling until moving down here to MB SC. Sorry to see Troy and Ike retire, but it was time. Watching my Pens right now. Nothing like the Stanley Cup playoffs!
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Bill,
I'm about 18 miles outside of Pittsburgh in a little sleepy town called Oakdale. I was under the impression that once the SI controller took over that the temp could not reach 300 degrees. Are you sure the inside cabinet was at 300 or just maybe that was a false reading by the Auber. My last rib smoke showed a temp spike on the Auber but Maverick showed cabinet temperature was actually dropping. I don't understand it either. Welcome to my world.
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Bill,
Did you do your autotunes with both probes attached, or just probe 1 (box)? Not sure if it would make a difference, but it might. I recommend autotuning with only probe 1, with the program set to time only.
Did you purchase the Auber from Steve, or direct? If from Steve, I recommend calling him. It's possible you have a bad unit, and he'll replace it, if he thinks that's the case.
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Dave, you are not far from where I lived--1/2 the house in Carnegie, 1/2 in Scott Township. Loved Pittsburgh. To answer your question, I am not sure what the reading from the Auber meant, whether accurate or not. I am going to autotune.
Tony, the autotune was done with probe #1 only, settings exactly as the directions state. CO1,2, & 3 with temp box settings, EO1, 2, & 3 with time only. First autotune results were: Second autotune results were:
P 80 P 9l
I 945 I 353
D 236 D 338
I did purchase the Auber from Steve, but I plan to do another autotune and test smoke before giving him a call.
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Those are HUGE swings in PID results, something is either really inconsistent between your auto tunes or something strange is going on in the box. Double check your drain hole, probe placement, etc.
Look to this thread for experiences from other folks on their auto tune settings - http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1285.0
The main table on the original post hasn't been updated for a while, so dig through the thread. Personally I wasn't impressed with the auto tune results when I tried it, so based on my understanding of each variable I came up with my own parameter set (another unpopular choice, but it is working for me) which can be found in that thread and has been rock solid with or without probe #2.
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I've done 2 auto tunes with varying PID results. With the second set of results, I've noticed that the box warms up much quicker but tends to over run the set temp by 5 or more degrees and then drop back to the set temp and hold it. I'm happy with what it is doing for now.
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I agree, Bill, that those autotune settings are vastly different! I've never seen swings that large in the numbers. Either something was different in your setup, or you have a problem with the unit. Case in point: I have a 1503CPH, from early testing, that is "old faithful" for me. When I was testing the new 1200GPH unit, the autotune results came out to be exactly the same. Not "close," but exactly the same! I'm guessing there is a problem with your unit.
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Tony, I finished another autotune tonight. The numbers for the three autotunes that I have done are as follows:
#1 P 80 #2 P 91 #3 P 87
I 945 353 266
236 338 316
Do these numbers have any significance to you because it is Greek to me.
Thanks for all the help, I definitely need it.
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Do these numbers have any significance to you because it is Greek to me.
Yes, Bill. They tell me that you probably have a problem with your Auber. Call Steve, and tell him that I said so.
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Thanks Tony, I appreciate the input. I was hoping that was not the case, but better to know now. I will give Steve a call in the morning. Weird though, because it was operating fine when using probe 2 and smoking anything but ribs.
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Maybe a stupid question, but how long are you waiting between auto tunes? If the entire box and insulation don't get back down to ambient temperatures between auto tunes, the subsequent tunes are going to be junk.
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Josh, all autotunes were done the next day. This issue has been resolved and Steve is taking care of the problem. Always good to see that the company you are dealing with has top of the line customer service. As has been stated on this forum numerous times, Steve is a terrific guy to deal with. I have no doubts that any dealings with Steve and Smokin-it will always be resolved with a minimum of inconvenience and to the customer's satisfaction.
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So, what was the conclusion? Probe? Auber?
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Unable to sort out where the problem occurs so just return both and start from scratch. Works for me. Steve is great to work with.
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Thought that might be the solution, Bill. Glad it's working-out for you. Let us know how the replacement works!
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Tony, the new unit arrived yesterday as I was leaving for work. Great service from Steve by the way. He received the old one Friday AM and I received the new one Wednesday. Also received the Jerky Dryer I ordered online Sunday from him. I just finished an autotune and wanted to run the numbers by you. The setup was exactly the same as the last autotune. The bricks had not been moved, water pan at same level, permanent probe still 1 1/2" from top centered, outside temp ranged from 68-73. I programmed the PID as shown per our instructions:
CO1 140 E01t .5
CO2 225 E02t 2.0
C03 140 E03t 1.0
Checked after 3 hrs and autotune completed, 195 showing in left Auber display window. PID listings were as follows:
P 106
I 967
D 241
Do these numbers sound acceptable to you? I noticed the P# seemed almost double to what other users posted under the group thread, I# a little high, and D# in line with others. Not to worry? I'm obviously a little gunshy. Thanks in advance, again, for all your patience and input. Steve should officially appoint you Smokin-it Ambassador With Portfolio for what you provide on this forum, with special regard to the Auber.
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Bill, the "P" does look high, but you need to run a "simulated" smoke (not in autotune mode) to test it. Leave your bricks in there, and set C01 to 225, t, 2.0 hours. Turn the cold smoker on, and test how it rises to temp, and how it holds. I'd do this before testing with meat.
Thanks, so much, for the kind compliment! I'm a little passionate about SI smokers, and mainly our great group of fellow smokers here, so it's all fun! I'm blessed to be a part of the SI team!
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Bill,
I also got a replacement Auber from Steve and this might help you. Mine is a #2 not a three. I did two new auto tunes and tried another set of figures from Walt and none performed as well as my old Auber settings. I have done one smoke and three simulated smokes over the last four days.
I put my old numbers into the new Auber and it looks great so far from the test smoke. I was happy with the results on my old Auber except when it over ran my target by quite a bit on ramp up. I'll know more tomorrow when I smoke some beef ribs for the first time.
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Auber ramped up to target of 235 in 54 minutes. Over ran by 4 degrees then dropped back and locked on target for 6 hours and never moved.
I think my problems are behind me now. Thanks to all those who helped me work thru this.
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Tony,
I did 2 simulated smokes today with the new Auber, C01 225 @ 2.0. First one the temp was running fast for first 20 minutes (205), then slowed. At 45 min. it was at 215, and at 1hr 13 min it hit 225. 1 hr 35 min at 226. I didn't get back to the unit until it was at 2hr 25 min and it had ended and box temp showed 174.
I let the box cool down for a few hours and ran the second simulation. 71 at the start, 1/2 hr @ 167, 15 min later @ 209, 1/2 hr after that @ 225. Stayed at 225-226 until the end. Length of simulation was troubling, however. I set the Auber as suggested at 2.0 hrs, but the unit did not shut off until it had gone for 2 hrs 17 min. That could create a problem. Any ideas?
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I set the Auber as suggested at 2.0 hrs, but the unit did not shut off until it had gone for 2 hrs 17 min. That could create a problem. Any ideas?
Hmm... not sure about this one. Are you certain the rest of the steps were zeroed-out? It might have been trying to move to step 2?
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Nope, set at C01 2.0 with all other programs zeroed out. Held temp fine once reached, just ran 17 minutes over. Puzzling.
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During the :17 over, Bill, was the little green light (above window 2) on, showing that power was going to the element? Or, did the program just fail to shut off at 2 hours? If the green light wasn't on, it wasn't powering the element.
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Tony,
The red light on the left was on, the green light on right was on, as was the light showing temp in right window.
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Bill, the red light on the left is nothing (that's power to a Bradley smoke generator, which you can turn off in the settings). The green light, on the right, means power to the element. I'm a little confused about "the light showing temp in right window." Did you have it set to time, or temp? The right window should have been displaying time.
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Tony,
Sorry for the confusion. It was the time indicator light (Instructions Diagram #5) just below the green output status indicator. The right window was displaying time.
It does however, get more interesting. I did an autotune earlier. All parameters the same. Nothing changed. Final readings were:
P 57
I 063
D 265
I figured uh, oh! 063. Better do another autotune. Let the unit cool down and proceeded to autotune menu. When scrolling through the steps the readings stored were:
P 57
I 986
D 265
I am waiting for the box to cool down now and I will do another simulated smoke tonight. Just for reference, my initial PID with the 1st Auber, using the same bricks, same location, same water pan and lqd volume, and permanent probe in same location produced the following:
P 80
I 945
D 236
I will post an update when I conclude the simulated smoke.
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I made a mistake with the previous post. The second set of numbers was incorrect. They should have been entered as:
P 57
I 600 NOT 986
D 265
After completing the second autotune today, the numbers were:
P 57
I 986
D 246
Will await the sim smoke results to see how the unit handles the time shutoff factor.
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OK, simulated smoke complete. Took 45 min to reach 225, held 225 through completion with shutoff at precisely 2.0 hrs. It would seem the time factor question has been resolved. If the PID #'s are within acceptable tolerances then all is well in the Smokin-it/Auber world.
P 57
I 986
D 246
Tony, how do they seem to you?
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The numbers look good to me, Bill. Good to hear all is well...now go do a "real" smoke! ;) "Simulations" get old after awhile!... :-\
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Ain't that the truth, Tony. Got some bellies due out of the cure with some hickory and applewood waiting to be fired up.
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Ain't that the truth, Tony. Got some bellies due out of the cure with some hickory and applewood waiting to be fired up.
Man, can't wait to see how that turns out, Bill!! I've yet to try belly bacon, but it's on my short list!
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Tony,
Just follow Pork Belly's dry cure method with apple and hickory and you will be amazed how easy it is and the taste is so much better than store bought. And SuperDave's method for Canadian Bacon is out of this world. I smoke that with apple and sugar maple.
After the bellies are done it will be time for 6.5 lbs of Katz NY Deli pastrami to go in the smoker with some cherry wood and a little hickory.
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Too bad we're not neighbors, Bill! :(
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Drop by any time and bring your clubs.
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Thanks Bill! ;D
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Tony.....the bellies are calling you......you'll never go back.... :)
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Tony.....the bellies are calling you......you'll never go back.... :)
I know they are, Bob! My only problem is finding them! I guess I'm going to have to order some from a butcher shop, as I can never find them in my regular meat-getting places! >:(
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Do buckboard with the same dry cure method. That is really tasty too! I am fortunate that I can order bellies on base.
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I am fortunate that I can order bellies on base.
Yeah...I really miss having a commissary close to me. :(
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I think I must be a little slow. I do not understand the simulated smoke with bricks. Will anyone shed some light on this for me. I am having some of the stated problems with ribs and only the temp. set. Also some have stated only using one probe. My unit will not seem to operate unless both probes are plugged in. As stated, I may be extremely slow to understand, but am getting more and more frustrated.
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Bluecat,
A simulated cook is nothing more than a way to monitor the smoker without using meat which can get expensive when you are trying to pin down a problem. Just put a brick or two, I use a pan of sand, into the smoker and set your program the same as a normal cook. You'll need a Maverick to double check what the Auber is doing. I log every test on a log sheet showing the conditions of the test. Mark down date, air temp, wind, what you used for your test. Write down time, Auber temp and Mav temp every 15 minutes. (sometimes shorter) Usually you can get by with only logging the results until it locks in on your target temp. This usually only takes around 60 to 90 minutes. I usually set my Maverick probe within a 1/2" of my fixed probe.
Try it with no meat probe then do another one with the meat probe plugged in to a potato. I even made two small boats out of foil and put sand into them the aprox. weight of the ribs to simulate a small rib cook. You can't gather too much information. What really drives us crazy is the ones that are only happening once in a while.
If you can narrow it down to a specific type of cook like ribs, do the same log sheet on the next few rib cooks until you are confident it is working the way it should or you can document with hard figures what is happening.
Can you give us more information about about what you have noticed? Was it a spike in temp, not settling on target, large over run or under run, excessive time to hit target, etc.
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My temp. never got to 225. It would fluctuate between 205 and 190. Thought maybe the heating element was not working, but when I unplugged the unit the SI worked fine. Sure appreciate your help on this.
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Have you done a auto tune? What are your PID numbers.
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This might be a coincidence but I'll throw it out there. The smoke after my one where the Auber wouldn't get closer than 20 degrees to my set temp, I checked the probe plugs where they go into the back of the Auber. The silver sleeve with the spring behind it was very loose. I tightened them very snug and proceeded with my smoke and everything worked as it should. Everyone should check these periodically as they seem to work themselves loose.
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Good catch Dave. Maybe at some point we can solve why so many are having Auber rib problems.
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Am going to auto tune tomorrow and do the simulated smoke. I did .do an auto tune several months ago on two boston butts. Do you need to do this each time you do a different kind of meat?
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Usually it's one auto tune and your done. No need to change for different meats. Check your PID numbers to make sure they look in line with others. Sometimes you'll get a number that just does not look right. Do a test smoke with a pan of wet sand and see how your tune works.
What you are looking for is a ramp up to a set target temperature in a reasonable amount of time, little or no over run. Once it is locked on target it should stay there usually within degree. Once your happy go cook some fantastic BBQ.
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Cat - Dave's right. No need to autotune for different cooks. It tests how fast your element heats, and what it takes to slow it down and maintain temp. That's based on the physical hardware, not what's for dinner. The tune you did for the butts should be fine for everything else.