Smokin-It User Forum!
Recipes => Sausage => Topic started by: Libohunden on December 05, 2016, 09:30:06 PM
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Gents,
I've never made snack sticks before but I just got a JAMES Jerky Dryer and I'm itching to make snack sticks. Can someone point me to what I need to make these delicious treats?
I've been looking at the Walton spice mixes and will probably will grab a couple of those mixes.
I'll probably grab a jerky cannon. Is the one they sell at academy good or is the Walton gun better?
I don't have a grinder... Do I really need one or can I get by without?
What size casings should I get? Are there different types and with are preferred?
I notice that the spice packs are good for 25lbs of meat. Do you generally do all 25lbs at one time?
High temp cheese? Yes/no? (Just kidding here... Of course! LOL)
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Hey Libo,
I have answered your questions below as best that I know how. Sorry, but it got a little wordy. :)
1. I've been looking at the Walton spice mixes and will probably will grab a couple of those mixes.
Gregg: Waltons is a great place to get your spices and/or equipment. You can also find some decent deals on Amazon and other sites as well.
2. I'll probably grab a jerky cannon. Is the one they sell at academy good or is the Walton gun better?
Gregg: I have a LEM Jerky Cannon and it works pretty well for small batches, say 5-10 or maybe 15 pounds. It is a good starting point and is great for making sticks without casings. If you want to use collagen casings, you'll need to buy the snack stick nozzle that says that it will accept 19mm and 21mm collagen casings. My experience with this nozzle is that the 19mm casings are very tight and hard to stuff as a result. Try to get casings that are small enough to fit onto the tube without stretching them out which really reduces the amount of casing that you can get onto the tube. I would think that 19mm casings would be the smallest you would want o use with a jerky cannon, with 21mm being the preferred. While it can be done solo, I would strongly advise having at least one helper or two if you have two tubes. It is kind of hard to pull the trigger and hold onto the casings to make sure that the casings get stuffed adequately. If you have two tubes, it would be nice to have someone refilling a tube while you are stuffing with the other one.
While I am a huge Walton's Inc fan from a company perspective and I even like most of the Weston products, I am not a big fan of the Weston Jerky Gun that they sell. I do not have any experience with it, so I may be wrong. I just think the LEM Jerky Cannon looks more stout and I know based on experience that it holds up. I have had my LEM gun for over 10 years, although it hasn't seen a ton of use since we bought our sausage stuffer. I don't really like the looks of the trigger mechanism versus the LEM version.
https://www.amazon.com/LEM-468-Products-Jerky-Cannon/dp/B000SQFGRS
https://www.amazon.com/Jerky-Cannon-Long-Snack-Stick/dp/B002L7UVOA
This gun branded by www.jerkyspot.com (appears to be a rebranded LEM as it looks EXACTLY like the LEM) comes with a double barrel (load one while stuffing with the other) for only $8 more than the LEM.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00US645GQ/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza
While the Jerky Cannon is great, for a little more you might just want to consider getting a small sausage stuffer which makes a huge difference in ease of use, consistency of the stuffing, and amount of times you need to refill with meat. Assuming that you go with a LEM or the rebranded gun that I posted or something similar, you are probably looking at spending something in the range of $70-85. Whereas, Walton's Inc has some great deals right now on their stuffers with free shipping over $50. Their single stage 7lb stuffer is $119 and their dual stage 7lb stuffer is $159.99.
$119.00 - https://www.waltonsinc.com/7-lb-sausage-stuffer-single-speed
$159.99 - https://www.waltonsinc.com/7-lb-sausage-stuffer
The sausage stuffer makes the process a lot faster and allows you to stuff your casings more evenly in my opinion. If you are not using casings, the Jerky Cannon is the way to go.
I just bought an 11lb dual stage stuffer and a 17lb mixer and documented in the following thread:
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=5678.0
I haven't actually used the stuffer yet other than the unboxing, but it looks like a very high-quality piece of equipment and I am not worried about how it will work. I am planning on making some "Ring Bologna" next weekend and will update the post with my review after using the stuffer.
3. I don't have a grinder... Do I really need one or can I get by without?
Gregg - You can easily get by without a grinder. Of all of the equipment that is optional, this would be the last piece of equipment that I would buy. The advantages are that you can source and grind your own meat and save some money by buying whole cuts. But, for smaller batches, it is just as easy to buy preground or ask your butcher to grind the meat for you. I did just recently contemplate some hand stuffers and found/purchased the following Kitchener grinder from Norther Tool. It was and still is on sale for $99.99 and I had a $20 off coupon for orders over $100 that I used. So, I got this for a pretty affordable price. I compared some hand grinders that were in the $30-$60 range, but their quality and reviews were less than stellar, whereas the Kitchener electric has great reviews.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200451267_200451267
4. What size casings should I get? Are there different types and with are preferred?
Gregg - If you go with the Jerky Cannon, I would get the 21mm casings. 19mm can be used, but it is a very snug fit on the tube which makes them hard to stuff.
If you go with a stuffer, you could go as low as 17mm casings.
95% of the sticks that I make are with 21mm casings.
5. I notice that the spice packs are good for 25lbs of meat. Do you generally do all 25lbs at one time?
Gregg - I have smoked as much as 28lbs at a time as well as smaller 5-12.5 pound batches. I would not recommend trying a 25lb batch unless you have a Smokin-It #3 or larger and not until after you have smoked some smaller batches. Smoking a 25lb batch can be a little problematic because first you will need at least 6 trays (with the addon smoking it side trays) and you will have to rotate top to bottom and front to back several times during the smoke.
You can easily weigh and sub-divide the 25lb mixes from Walton's or any other vendor and reuse later. I would start either split a 25lb batch into 2-3 batches.
6. High temp cheese? Yes/no? (Just kidding here... Of course! LOL)
Gregg - The High Temp cheese is really good. But, you will for sure need to use 21mm casings and a 2-stage sausage stuffer would be advised as it does make the meat a little harder to stuff through the small 3/8" snack stick stuffing tube and could possibly damage your trigger assembly on your gun. I have not tried the cheese in my Jerky Cannon, but we have done it a few times in our 15lb single stage LEM stuffer and it is pretty hard on a single stage stuffer gears of that size. The smaller diameter tank on the 7lb single stage stuffer should make it a little easier on the gear, but the 2-stage stuffer would be even better.
Let me know if you have any questions. Feel free to PM me too if you prefer.
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Gregg,
You rock! Thank you for all of that!
I'm going to start with the Jerky Gun... I may try that 2 barrel one.. I had looked at it last night, actually. I figure I'll start with the gun and if I'm finding myself making more and more, I'll invest more. FYI - I do have a Model 3 and plenty of shelves.. plus now have the side rails with more slots.
I'm going to give some of these links to the Fam so they can have some ideas on what to get me for Christmas!
Now, onto more pressing issues... I'm also dying to make Bacon... as I just got a cold smoke plate also!!! And I know you are one of the top bacon guys on the forum. I think from what I've read, I can get a pork belly this weekend and start brining it. I may need to move this queston. But do you have a new bacon maker wet or dry brine recipe?
I'm moving into all sorts of uncharted waters here!
Thanks again!
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Libo, thanks for asking the exact thing I have been thinking about. And Gregg, what an awesome answer. I have been thinking about trying to make snack sticks for a while.
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I am looking forward to seeing/hearing your results from your first batches.
:)
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Ok... Just ordered Willie's, BBQ Smoke & buffalo blue cheese snack stick mixes from Wilton's. Plus, some high temp blue cheese and cheddar. Plus some 21mm casing.
The Jerky Spot gun has been out of stock for weeks now and Santa didn't bring me one! I guess I'll grab me a LEM from Academy! Can't wait to get started!
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Just realized that I didn't order Sure gel. Is that necessary?
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I am looking forward to seeing/hearing your results from your first batches.
:)
Great Question! I have a #2, what is the max batch size for that size smoker. Great info here--thinking I need to stuff some stuff!
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What do y'all think of this? Was about to spend $60-70 on a jerky cannon and a snack stick attachment. For $40-50 more, I can get this. Thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IQRSJ4M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17W5VZEPRAUKL
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Just realized that I didn't order Sure gel. Is that necessary?
The Sure Gel is not "necessary". It helps retain moisture and gives a more consistent mouth feel similar to meat market or store bought sticks.
We made our sticks without it for years and they still turned out pretty darn good. I would go ahead without it and just order some the next time you order supplies.
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What do y'all think of this? Was about to spend $60-70 on a jerky cannon and a snack stick attachment. For $40-50 more, I can get this. Thoughts?
I don't see any links or information on what you are looking at. Did you forget to add a link?
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I am looking forward to seeing/hearing your results from your first batches.
:)
Great Question! I have a #2, what is the max batch size for that size smoker. Great info here--thinking I need to stuff some stuff!
With the add-on 9-shelf side rail, 5-6 shelves, and 21MM casings, I am guessing you could fit 15-20lbs in at a time. With the stock side rails and four shelves, I would think you max would be 10-15lbs.
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Oops. Sorry about that...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IQRSJ4M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17W5VZEPRAUKL
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Oops. Sorry about that...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IQRSJ4M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17W5VZEPRAUKL
I think that would be a definite improvement over the gun. One thing to note though, if you want to make snack sticks, is that you are going to have to pick up a 12-13MM (I prefer 12MM) stuffing tube. Because the smallest tube that this stuffer comes with is .6" which is 15.24MM. In order to use 21MM casings, you need a minimum of a 13MM stuffing tube. Even with the 13MM stuffing tube, the 21MM casings are pretty tough to get on the tube, which is why I prefer the 12MM tube. The casings slide on the tube cleanly without needing to expand the casings.
I looked on Amazon and I could not find either a 12MM or 13MM stuffing tube. So, you are going to have to get one from Waltons or some other meat processing retailer. Walton's has them for $9.99 plus shipping which ends up being $6.99 unless you order other stuff to help alleviate the shipping cost.
I almost went with this one which is a pretty similar knock-off version from the Waltons/Weston/LEM style stuffers:
20lb stuffer $161.45 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LN701SU
I ended up going with the 11lb stuffer from Waltons:
https://www.waltonsinc.com/11-lb-sausage-stuffer
- It came with the stuffing tubes that I wanted/needed and they were all stainless steel instead of plastic.
- I ordered enough product with it to get free shipping. They just had a $50 free shipping deal over Christmas, but it looks like that is done now. That being said, the 11lb stuffer is $20 cheaper which is less than the sale price of $199.99 when I bought mine. This is a New Year's deal. So, I am not sure how much longer it will last.
- I am not sure if I believe it or not, but I checked with Walton's Customer Service and they claim that their gearbox is of higher quality than the cheaper versions on Amazon.
- In the case of any problems, I am a lot more comfortable with the customer service from Waltons as opposed to the Amazon vendors.
That being said the cheaper price is still very tempting. But, I would be tempted to move up to an 11lb stuffer for a few bucks more. I tried a 5lb stuffer earlier this Fall and didn't like having to refill so much, although either option will be better than refilling a narrow gun tube.
Powder Coated version $134.99 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H0WAYMO (Note - This stuffer actually comes with a 10MM tube which is actually too small for normal 19-21MM casings. But, would be good for 15-18MM casings which are more like slim jim size. I actually bought a 10MM tube with my stuffer but having tried it yet. I have been told that it will work, but cranking will be a lot harder and a little harder on the gears. So, I'll most likely only do a few slim jim batches per year and continue to use the 19-21MM casings with my 12MM tube for most of my sticks.
Stainless Steel $145.98 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AXNSZ50
FYI, the 15lb stuffer that we purchased to use at my parent's house has now been used for about 10 years and shows no signs of needing to be replaced. So, I would say buy the stuffer that you want because if you take care of it, it will last a LONG time. If you only make small batches, the 3L (8LB) stuffer may be all you will ever need.
Lastly, no matter which stuffer you get, I would recommend getting some food grade "White Oil" and/or some food grade silicone spray to lube the gearbox and piston gasket. I got mine at Walton's, but I am guessing it could be found on Amazon as well.
I know I like spending your money. But, just trying to give you some options to think about.
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Found a meat mixer on Craigslist and the owner is offering to sell it to me for $60. It's a Weston 20lb mixer. Do any of you actually use a meat mixer of just do it by hand? Debating whether I should get it or not?
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Greg, I want my cut of the kickback your getting from Waltons!
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I really should get some kick backs! :P
I have a 20lb mixer at home and a 50lb mixer at my parent's house and they are definitely worth it.
It is hard to get the meat mixed as well and also hard to get the required protein extraction from hand mixing. A mixer is not required, but definitely recommended.
If the mixer is in good shape, $60 for a Weston mixer is a pretty good deal.
BTW, don't plan on putting anymore than 15lbs in a 20lb mixer. The mixer itself might hold 20lbs of meat, but mixing 20lbs in it will not work very well.
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I took the plunge last night and bought the 11lb Walton stuffer. I hope I use it enough to make it worth it. My rationale was that I could get by with a jerky gun but if I enjoy making sticks, my cost just went up by $50 since I would purchase the stuffer later. Plus, I can make my own sausage with the stuffer.
I also got some white oil as you recommended and some sure gel.
Since I'm all in, I may pick up that meat mixer on Craigslist. I may start out the gate with a 10lb batch!
Do you tie the ends of the casings when making sticks?
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No, I don't tie them.
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Congrats on the stuffer. You will be glad you had the extra capacity when you start stuffing. Heck, for a 10 pound batch you might not even have to refill once. But, by the time you add water and sometimes cheese, you won't be able to get quite all of it in. But, just do a couple of ropes and then refill when you have enough room to fit the rest in. That $179.99 sale is pretty good too.
I bought two extra gaskets too, but I was happily surprised that it came with a spare gasket already. With the Steel tubes including the necessary 12MM tube, extra gasket, etc., included with the Waltons stuffer, the little things start adding up and all of the sudden the Amazon versions aren't quite as cheap as you thought.
A few snack stick tips that I am not sure that I have shared before that may help you a little bit:
- I usually break my casing sticks into thirds and stuff a third of a casing at a time. Any more than that is hard to manage.
- I usually set a flat cookie sheet (no sides) on a potholder and my helper (one of my kids) spins the stuffed sausage on the cookie sheet as it comes off of the stuffer.
- Then I have a nice roll of stuffed sausage that I later measure (40" for my #3) and cut and hang on my Sausage Rack Mini (SRM-1000) (http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=5827).
- To make this easier, I measure 40" on my counter and then place a couple of pieces of Masking tape to the counter. Then I just use the masking tape to quickly measure my sausage and cut into 40" ropes.
- You'll end up with some odds and ends, but you just jigsaw puzzle them onto the racks and they work just fine.
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Thanks Greg! I read somewhere that it's good to put casings in fridge so they are not so brittle. Is that a fact?
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I have heard it too, but honestly do not normally do it. My butcher suggested that it is a good idea to put them in the fridge for an hour or two prior to stuffing. This adds a little humidity to the casings and as you have mentioned makes them not quite as brittle.
This might be more necessary if you have some older casings that have dried out a bit. I typically only buy them shortly before using them, so have never really remembered to do it. But if I remember it, I would put them in the fridge for a couple of hours prior to stuffing. It is a good idea.
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No, I don't tie them.
So what do you do? Twist them? How does the meat stay inside the casing?
Also, is there a need to hang them? I planned to stuff them, throw them in a deep pan in the fridge over night. Then smoke them, ice bath and then cut and package.
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I like to hang them because it helps dry the casings out and helps them stick to the meat. I want to get rid of as much moisture as possible prior to smoking as possible. If you don't hang them, make sure that you don't stack them too high or they will get flat. A simple rack like I made in my garage only costs $10-$20 or so. Unless you are in an area that stays pretty wam overnight. They are cured so don't necessarily need to be at Fridgerator temps, but would be nice to keep them in the below 50-60 degree temps or so.
I don't twist either. The meat won't come out of the casings unless you stuff them too tight which is kind of hard to do. When cutting the sticks to length, I just pinch the area to be cut flat between my thumb and forefinger and then cut with a scissors.
You can see in the attached picture that some have some loose casing, but most you can see a little pinch mark but for the most part open. I did have a batch where it didn't get my sticks filled tight enough. So, I tried to squeeze them together to fill them up more full. But, I squeezed them too tight and they were too tight and they did start to leak a little bit (maybe and inch or two), but they still stayed together and didn't drop a bunch of meat on the floor or anything if that was what you were worried about. But, that only happened to me once in ten years or so. So, it is not a big worry of mine.
I might have to make a video sometime. But, not sure if that is going to happen or not. :)
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I'm wondering if something like this would hold 10 lbs of sticks?
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I'm wondering if something like this would hold 10 lbs of sticks?
Something like what?
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Ding a dang dang, I did it again. Here it is!
http://www.containerstore.com/s/compact-accordion-clothes-drying-rack/d?productId=11004508&q=Drying%20rack
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Yeah, I think that would work if you are only doing 10lbs or less. Any more and I would be a little concerned that it would handle the weight. It is a nice option that would be easily stored when not in use.
That could be considered the Sausage Rack Super Mini (SRSM-1000) :P
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LOL! That's what i like about it. I'm not sure about hanging them in my garage. I'd probably have roaches all over them if they were out there more than an hour or two.
I'm going to try to finish a batch of bacon on Saturday and hopefully, snack sticks on Sunday! It will be in the 30's in Houston all weekend but next week it will be back up to 78ish. The time for these kind of goodies is short around here!
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LOL! That's what i like about it. I'm not sure about hanging them in my garage. I'd probably have roaches all over them if they were out there more than an hour or two.
Gregg does it because no roach could withstand the frozen great white north where he lives! I think that's why he lives up there...he has a bug-free, 360 refrigerator for all the meat he produces! ;D ;D
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Yeah, but I bet he has a lot more mice than I do! The copperheads, water moccasins, coral snakes and timber rattlers keep our mice population down to almost undetectable levels! Just wish they would kill more squirrels!
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;D ;D ;D We all have our own issues, Libo!
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LOL! Hanging from the side of the garage wall, I'm not sure mice could get up to my SRM-1000.
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Daddy's got a new friend!
But, dang is this thing big! Now, I'm thinking I should have gotten the 7lb'er! I'm going to have to store this beast in my garage!
Can't wait to git started!
How do I figure out how to apportion out the snack stick mix and sure cure and sure gel? That seems like the only complicated part to this.
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That's a beaut! No bugs up here in the winter. Plus winter in the North is a great time to do cold smoking. With temps around zero today, and wind chills below -20, I'm trying to find positive reasons I live in this god-forsaken place. Suffering with 2 months or so of extremes reaps it rewards I guess for the rest of the year, which is awesome.
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Daddy's got a new friend!
But, dang is this thing big! Now, I'm thinking I should have gotten the 7lb'er! I'm going to have to store this beast in my garage!
Can't wait to git started!
How do I figure out how to apportion out the snack stick mix and sure cure and sure gel? That seems like the only complicated part to this.
Trust me, you won't regret getting the 11 pounder. :)
I just use a calculator and my trusty scale that I use to weigh my wood.
I actually just quick whipped up a Seasoning Calculator in Excel that you may find helpful. I might try to make this a little more pretty and then create its own post, but hopefully this will help for now.
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AqanuXw3q_HboewUgcbC1p-atNn4vg
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That looks interesting. I can't see inside the cells on my iPad but will fire up the laptop in the morning to check it out more thoroughly. That looks like it will help me make it easier! Thank you!
I literally just finished washing the tank, the 12mm nipple and nut. I dropped the plunger all the way down but it couldn't come out of the machine after it dropped. Do I just unscrew that screw on the disk head to remove it and leave the notched bar in? Also, I was planning on removing the gasket before cleaning. Should I clean that also and then re-apply a light coat of white oil on it or leave the white oil off until I'm done stuffing?
I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get into this, Greg! I wasn't feeling to good today so I'm going to wait to see how I feel in the morning before I decide if I'm going to prep a batch tomorrow night to smoke on Sunday. This is the perfect weekend though with the temp already low.
Thanks for all of your help and everyone else!
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I think you'll have to download the spreadsheet to modify it.
You unscrew the piston and then turn the screw down into the tube to store it.
I put the oil on the gasket before stuffing. You can oil the gears before and after stuffing/cleaning.
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You lost me on removing the plunger from the housing body?
But that's another good point, how do you get to the gears?
Also, is there a reason not to use vegetable oil on the gasket?
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I figured out it unscrews! LOL. Did I mention that I'm not hitting on all cylinders today?