Author Topic: Bitter flavor  (Read 9383 times)

Lonzinomaker

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2019, 08:29:57 PM »
You have it right.  You didn't use to have a Smokin-It.  Smokin-Its don't have a high rate of air exchange, so smoke stays in the smoker. That's why you need a fan like the "James Jerky Dryer" to get a higher air exchange rate when doing jerky to get the meat dry out. And the low air exchange rate is why you don't need to add a pan of water when doing pork butts or ribs or fish. Those 2-3 chunks of wood burn a 3-4 hours in the Smokin-it. The same amount of wood in my MES would last about 20-30 min.
Besides a scale, I invested in a nice forged Estwing hatchet with leather wrapped handle (my Xmas present to myself) to split those bigger chunks of wood easily.
Dave
Smokin-It #3 main smoker.
1400 Smokin Tex (same size as #2) for Snowbird time.
Smokin-It #1 for camping trips.
Big Chief with mailbox mod for cheese smoking
Blackstone 22in griddle with Bakerstone pizza oven
Spokane, WA

LuvMyQ

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2019, 05:30:45 PM »
Lonzinomaker, I like the tip about the aluminum flashing pans for the firebox.  I mus try that.
Terry from Indiana
3D WIFI
Weber Performer (Kettle in a cart with a gas igniter)Formerly owned WSM 18"
Never had a gas grill
I love technology
Counting the years to retirement

mertzer13

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2019, 08:58:03 AM »
To all that helped - Sorry for the long delay - so a few more experiments.  I am amazed at how little wood the SI uses.  A 2 oz block is more smoke flavor that an entire bag of chips cold create in my old Home Depot special!  I am also surprised that it will smoke at such low temps.  I used to have to go to 210 to get the chips going and then lower the temp. 

200 - 14oz of wood - 2hr - a great way to ruin hard fought salmon...sad day
200 - 2oz - 2hr - Still much darker that I have ever seen in my old smoker, a bit dry, AWESOME flavor
175 - 1.5oz - 2hr - Now we are getting somewhere!  Still dark, but cant stop eating it!

Thanks for all the help!

Now I will move on to master jerky, Lox, and some brisket!  I think I will go smoke some s--- this weekend!

Thanks again all!

LarryD

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2019, 12:48:44 PM »
Thank you so much for sharing your success story with us!  We're an empathetic bunch, so we're sad when you're sad and we're happy when you're happy.  :)
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See where the Smokin-It Forum Members are located: https://goo.gl/iFgTi1  -- Message me to be added...

mertzer13

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2019, 05:42:43 PM »
SI users - My fish is great now - almost every time - 1.5oz - 2oz for 2 hrs @ 175. 
But...... The smoke flavor is just not as strong as my old electric smoker.  Many in my circle say the new recipe is better, but I liked the heavy smoke flavor.  I have used wet brine and dry brine and always let the fish sit at room temp for 3-5 hrs before smoking.  the SI smokes the entire time after about the first 10 min.  I put the fish into the SI cold and leave the door sealed for the full smoke.  I am wondering is the fact that there is alot less air movement in the SI than in a pit boss, it reduces the smoke / meat contact times?

Any thoughts?

Lipster

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2019, 10:09:45 PM »
Try different woods.

tomd8

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2019, 07:49:49 AM »
Mertzer13 - You make an interesting point about less air movement and smokiness.  My last 2 smokers were modified for lots of air movement with both smoke and moisture.  Early on I thought of doing the same mods to my #3 (shame on me) but I'm glad I controlled myself because the other side of the coin is my ribs turn out unbelievable.  My fish on the other hand still needs work.  My last smoke was at 175deg for 4 hrs, IT temp of my fish was 160.  The end results was the fish was still a bit wet for my liking.  I judge this based on how flaky the results are.  My last batch was 4 large fillets with skin on but maybe I should have broken them down to smaller pieces (others disagree).  I am curious if after 2 hours (I believe that's what you posted) is the fish flaky?  Thank you for all the sharing in this post. - Tom
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 09:54:54 AM by tomd8 »
Tom from New York
SmokinIt #3 analog, Masterbuilt analog, Little Chief

Lonzinomaker

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2019, 11:22:01 PM »
I like the very mild flavor Alder gives, so that is what I use.  You could try adding one oz of apple or cherry in addition to the alder for a stronger smoke flavor.
Dave
Smokin-It #3 main smoker.
1400 Smokin Tex (same size as #2) for Snowbird time.
Smokin-It #1 for camping trips.
Big Chief with mailbox mod for cheese smoking
Blackstone 22in griddle with Bakerstone pizza oven
Spokane, WA

mertzer13

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2019, 06:07:27 PM »
Mertzer13 - You make an interesting point about less air movement and smokiness.  My last 2 smokers were modified for lots of air movement with both smoke and moisture.  Early on I thought of doing the same mods to my #3 (shame on me) but I'm glad I controlled myself because the other side of the coin is my ribs turn out unbelievable.  My fish on the other hand still needs work.  My last smoke was at 175deg for 4 hrs, IT temp of my fish was 160.  The end results was the fish was still a bit wet for my liking.  I judge this based on how flaky the results are.  My last batch was 4 large fillets with skin on but maybe I should have broken them down to smaller pieces (others disagree).  I am curious if after 2 hours (I believe that's what you posted) is the fish flaky?  Thank you for all the sharing in this post. - Tom

Tom - So as time has passed, my fish improves - currently using a dry rub (Salt and sugar mostly), 12-24 hrs depending on thickness.  Smaller pieces seem better than larger ones, I use about 1oz of Alder and 1 oz of Hickory.  I smoke at 175 for 2 hrs.  Thin pieces (Like a tail filet) come out dry, thicker pieces are moist, all is flaky.  Most tell me Hickory is too harsh for fish, but I like the smoke flavor.  also, time in the brine seems very key.  too long and they get more and more salty.

So tell me how you do ribs, that is my next experiment!

LuvMyQ

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2019, 07:51:10 PM »
This thread is such a testament to the SI forum.  Mertzer13 contacted the forum with his bad experiences.  And the team all jumped in to provide some helpful guidance -some really good guidance.  But now I notice that he is providing valuable feedback and updates to the forum via his experimentation.  The forum is one of the strengths of the SI success, and definitely the deciding factor for me to buy my SI.

Mertzer13, about that rib question.  I would recommend using the search function for "Ribs".  Take notes and save bookmarks as there will be a few hours of reading there.  You will find 2 main camps  There are some who swear by the 5 hours in "no peek" method.  Other prefer variations of the 3-2-1 method where you wrap them part of the way through.  I have done both, and prefer the latter.  The wrapping keeps them more moist and will make them more of a fall off the bone tender.  The "no peek" provide great flavor, but aligns with what the competition judges like - just a bit of a bite or chew.  If you spend a little time reading though, you will turn out really good ribs on your first time out.

I am getting hungry for ribs now.
Terry from Indiana
3D WIFI
Weber Performer (Kettle in a cart with a gas igniter)Formerly owned WSM 18"
Never had a gas grill
I love technology
Counting the years to retirement

tomd8

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2019, 08:03:10 AM »
Mertzer13 – My fish has improved.  In comparison I’ve only ever used a wet brine for 5-6 hrs.  Now I’m smoking at 175deg using 1.7 oz of chips (hickory & pecan) for 4 hrs.  On my last smoke I tried to start off at approx 140 deg with the intent to slowly raise it to 175.  I ran into a problem where the chips wouldn’t ignite so in my last hour I turned to a pellet tube with a mix of pellets (hickory/apple) and it surprisingly turned out great.  All of my smokes this spring have been bluefish fillets with skin on (12-14” long) so I suspect it takes longer to get to the point of flakiness I look for.

For my ribs I use the “no peek” method. Since I like nearly fall off the bone I usually go a bit longer than 5 hrs.  I set the smoker to approx 235 deg., I use 3.25oz of wood chunks (apple/hickory/cherry).  I don’t remove the back membrane and use Jeff’s rub with a yellow mustard base.  The last few times I’ve made ribs I’ve added a shelf of 15 or so wings placed under the ribs.  I used a bit less wood (approx 2.75 oz) and pulled the wings after 2 hrs.  Once the ribs are done I put the wings on the grill for a few minutes to reheat and crisp the skin.  Then I lightly sauce.  My family and guests like them quite a bit.
Tom from New York
SmokinIt #3 analog, Masterbuilt analog, Little Chief

mertzer13

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2019, 10:29:33 AM »
TOM - Not to turn the OP from bitter flavor to brine recipes - but we digress....  I smoke almost exclusively Salmon (some trout).  I have tried dry and wet brine.  Love both from a flavor standpoint, with wet brine I can get more garlic and onion flavors.  but.... Almost always a wet brine will turn out more moist all things being the same.  The dry brine, sucks alot (Like a real lot) of moisture out of the fish in the brine process.  I mix 2C brown sugar, 1.25C tender quick salt, then whatever else I am in the mood for (Celery salt/ Onion power/ pepper / garlic).  Let it sit 24hrs - the amount of water is sucks out of this fish will shock you, and the fish will be dryer when done.  For me, its what I like - Dry and smoky.  My friends prefer the less smoky and more moist version.  but last I knew, I bought the SI, I landed the fish, so I will cook it how I like it!  and they still eat it!

tomd8

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2019, 12:09:13 PM »
Mertzer13 - I completely overlooked the dry vs wet brine difference forgetting a gravlox (sp?) test I did years ago....salt and sugar crusted salmon left in the fridge did give up quite a bit of liquid.  Big difference starting out for the smoker.  Thank you for pointing that out.  I should give the dry brine a try to see how salty it turns out....always my concern.
Tom from New York
SmokinIt #3 analog, Masterbuilt analog, Little Chief

mertzer13

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2019, 05:26:58 PM »
Tom,

I would start with less salt - my first recipe called for 50/50.  I currently use 1.25C salt to 2C sugar MAX.  I have used as little as .75C salt.  I "Think" the salt is the cure, so it may last longer with more salt.  However, I never seem to have it around long enough to know if that is true.  For me 2:1 is just about right, and if they are thinner pieces of fish, I will reduce it to more like .75C and cut the brine time down as well.  Good luck!

tomd8

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Re: Bitter flavor
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 07:41:13 AM »
Mertzer13 - Thank you for the recipe.  I see you smoke at 175 and you're applying a dry brine for some number of hours presumably in the fridge.  If I may ask why use Tender Quick curing salt and not plain Kosher salt?  Is bacteria the concern or some flavor or texture preference?
Tom from New York
SmokinIt #3 analog, Masterbuilt analog, Little Chief